How many years should we stay in Iraq?
- Thread starter forestal
- Start date
hvp05
Methodically disorganized
I was not aware we are occupying Iraq. The last time I heard, their government was running the country.forestal said:
I answered ideally, because we should have to stay there another year or less. If the Iraqi's resolve their social problems... and the Syrians and Iranians get spooked enough to quit funding the insurgency.
Somehow, though, I don't see that happening anytime soon in this dimension.
My tolerance is, naturally, weakening for the situation there. But my tolerance of terrorists is less. So as long as the terrorists keep coming we oughta keep blowing them to pieces. But I suppose I could be a fool for wanting to finish something we started, unlike others who bail whenever obstacles approach.
flomaster
J.F. A sus ordenes!
I have lived in Saudi Arabia and what many don't understand is that those people have a complately different mindset compared to the Western world. Islam is the rule. Live by it or die. Of course Islam does not tell people to go make IED's and the like but if you dig in deep into Islamic militants, they see without a doubt that what they do is right for them. They see no wrong in it at all.
They have a saying in the Arab world, Inshallah(SP?). Basically it means if God wills it. We all say the same in some ways. "I will pass the test god willing" They take that as gospel times infinity.
Live amongst them and you will truly have a sense of what we are really up against. It would be easier to assasinate the president in a room full of secret service agents than change the mind of the true believers. They are radicals and not governed by any laws of war like we are. Ditch the Geneva convention and kick the press out of the country and let those boys go to work!!!
They have a saying in the Arab world, Inshallah(SP?). Basically it means if God wills it. We all say the same in some ways. "I will pass the test god willing" They take that as gospel times infinity.
Live amongst them and you will truly have a sense of what we are really up against. It would be easier to assasinate the president in a room full of secret service agents than change the mind of the true believers. They are radicals and not governed by any laws of war like we are. Ditch the Geneva convention and kick the press out of the country and let those boys go to work!!!
I doubt we'll ever be "out" of Iraq. Why would we? We've got military bases all over the world - why not Iraq as well?
I find people who think we'll "get out" and our troops will "come home" to be supremely ignorant.
I find people who think we'll "get out" and our troops will "come home" to be supremely ignorant.
bcp
In My Opinion
I think that stopping all activities there, but leaving a base with troops, and a good embassy would do wonders.
help them rebuild, but do it with the profits gained from their selling us oil at a reduced price.
send Pat Robertson over so that he can tell them what God is saying to them each and every day, and to remind them that all of their problems are because of their treatment of their women folk.
I think it should be mandatory that each person in this country gets the name and address of one family in Iraq, and each year we must send them a christmas card wishing them the best that Christianity can give them.
help them rebuild, but do it with the profits gained from their selling us oil at a reduced price.
send Pat Robertson over so that he can tell them what God is saying to them each and every day, and to remind them that all of their problems are because of their treatment of their women folk.
I think it should be mandatory that each person in this country gets the name and address of one family in Iraq, and each year we must send them a christmas card wishing them the best that Christianity can give them.
RangerJohn
New Member
It was a terribly mistaken belief that we could topple Saddam Hussein, imprison the Baathists, call for free elections on Tuesday, and then walk away. Sixty years after the end of WWII, we still maintain forces in Germany and Japan, fifty years later we still maintain forces in Korea, despite a "cease fire" agreement.
The people in the Middle East have no tradition of participatory democracy and have no reason to believe that people voted into power, would ever voluntarily give up that power based upon results of the ballot box. Even with 230 years of representative government, we still don't have it all right, and to think that anyone could after 3 years is naive at best.
It will be a long hard slog and the masses (lemmings) out there have a collective memory of about 3.2 nano-seconds. (give or take) Even Winston Churchill was voted out of office by a war-weary Britain after Hitler was defeated. Bill Clinton made a lot of politcal capital at the expense of George Bush 41 by remarking that "Saddam Hussein still had his job" but that countless American's had lost theirs. Our society wants "instant gratification" and unfortunately it does not exist.
I too, have spend much time in the Middle East; Bahrain, Kuwait, U.A.E. Oman, Qatar, and the Kingdom. In those countries, democracy is starting to bloom....people are aware that they would like a say in their own lives, and are beginning to understand the concept that government is there to serve them, and not the other way around.
We have planted a seed in a dry, rocky, and inhospitable area...like the Joshua tree's of my native southern California, freedom and democracy will find the beginnings tough...but once rooted, will be strong and enduring. It won't be easy...but it is necessary. If we in the United States cannot help these people, then who can? The French?
The people in the Middle East have no tradition of participatory democracy and have no reason to believe that people voted into power, would ever voluntarily give up that power based upon results of the ballot box. Even with 230 years of representative government, we still don't have it all right, and to think that anyone could after 3 years is naive at best.
It will be a long hard slog and the masses (lemmings) out there have a collective memory of about 3.2 nano-seconds. (give or take) Even Winston Churchill was voted out of office by a war-weary Britain after Hitler was defeated. Bill Clinton made a lot of politcal capital at the expense of George Bush 41 by remarking that "Saddam Hussein still had his job" but that countless American's had lost theirs. Our society wants "instant gratification" and unfortunately it does not exist.
I too, have spend much time in the Middle East; Bahrain, Kuwait, U.A.E. Oman, Qatar, and the Kingdom. In those countries, democracy is starting to bloom....people are aware that they would like a say in their own lives, and are beginning to understand the concept that government is there to serve them, and not the other way around.
We have planted a seed in a dry, rocky, and inhospitable area...like the Joshua tree's of my native southern California, freedom and democracy will find the beginnings tough...but once rooted, will be strong and enduring. It won't be easy...but it is necessary. If we in the United States cannot help these people, then who can? The French?
hvp05
Methodically disorganized
I guess I should clarify that when I said we should be out in a year or less I was also thinking from an active combat standpoint. Certainly we will maintain bases there even once peace has set in.
Sorry, reflex.
I think similarly everytime I hear cries of futility from the Left.RangerJohn said:
RangerJohn said:
Sorry, reflex.
flomaster
J.F. A sus ordenes!
[ I think it should be mandatory that each person in this country gets the name and address of one family in Iraq, and each year we must send them a christmas card wishing them the best that Christianity can give them.[/QUOTE]
That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Change their religion? Why not you become a muslim and kick that around for awhile. Why don't we just adopt a bunch of black folks and send them be white cards so that the crime rate in the hood goes down!!!!
This war cannot be fixxed by making them good christians. Holy cow, of all the things to read on a Sunday afternoon. Oh and while I am on the subject of holy cows, lets make Arabs eat pork because its the other white meat!!!
That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. Change their religion? Why not you become a muslim and kick that around for awhile. Why don't we just adopt a bunch of black folks and send them be white cards so that the crime rate in the hood goes down!!!!
This war cannot be fixxed by making them good christians. Holy cow, of all the things to read on a Sunday afternoon. Oh and while I am on the subject of holy cows, lets make Arabs eat pork because its the other white meat!!!
MMDad
Lem Putt
We cannot repeat the failure of the Carter administration in Iran. He helped a dictator to be deposed, and then allowed, no encouraged, an Islamic Radical government to take power.
I believe we had justification to take out Sadam, but our biggest mistake is not having a plan to put a competent, non-radical government in power. We keep learning the lesson that the enemy you know is better then the enemy you don't know.
Since we started it, we have no choice but to finish it. We can either finish it by staying there until it is stable, or we can bail out, and finish it for the next 50 years, or however long it takes for the radical islamists to kill us all.
I believe we had justification to take out Sadam, but our biggest mistake is not having a plan to put a competent, non-radical government in power. We keep learning the lesson that the enemy you know is better then the enemy you don't know.
Since we started it, we have no choice but to finish it. We can either finish it by staying there until it is stable, or we can bail out, and finish it for the next 50 years, or however long it takes for the radical islamists to kill us all.
Dougstermd
ORGASM DONOR
bcp said:
I think we should stay until gas is 70 cents a gallon again
That was beautifulRangerJohn said:
Dougstermd
ORGASM DONOR
I was watching an interview the other night and the general said historically it takes 10 years to win a war against insurgents. I think we will always be in the region from here on.
forestal
I'm the Boss of Me
This might be an attainable goal if most of the population over there didn't hate us so much.
Our presence is the reason why there will be no peace until we leave. It is a destabilizing factor.
Also, we are risk losing the readiness of our military, if we haven't already lost it.
There is no military solution to the problems in Iraq.
Our presence is the reason why there will be no peace until we leave. It is a destabilizing factor.
Also, we are risk losing the readiness of our military, if we haven't already lost it.
There is no military solution to the problems in Iraq.
Ken King said:Good post.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
And it was just...
...a garden spot of peace, love and joy before we got there. The cradle of civilization.
forestal said:
...a garden spot of peace, love and joy before we got there. The cradle of civilization.
Most of the population hates us?forestal said:
I thought it was just several thousand insurgents and local criminals that were the problem. Considering that there are 25 million or so Iraqis if what you claim was factual the 170,000 or so US troops would be hard pressed to counter such an imbalance and body bags would be coming home in the hundreds per day.Your rhetoric is only surpassed by your stupidity.