I Learned in College That Admission Has Always Been for Sale

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I’d love it there, she assured me, with one caveat: You have to be really smart, she said. It became evident that her “smart” and my “smart” were different things. She casually rattled off hours she’d logged with a personalized standardized test tutor, paid to boost her score. Her parents opted not to pay an editor to work with her on her application essay, but plenty of her classmates’ families had.

I suddenly felt as though I’d failed a test I didn’t know I was taking. I was even more gobsmacked when I realized how common her experience was. Asking around, I learned that a subset of my peers had been carefully groomed with tools I hadn’t even known existed. I came to realize that my “A” in Literature from my freshman year and a job between classes and on weekends were not going to compete with pedigrees buffed to application perfection thanks to highly compensated college admissions coaches.

I did end up transferring, not to my friend’s school but to The New School, where I finished my degree remotely while working full time,and I graduated in January 2017. Now I talk to young people, including my own sister, who agonize over the fact that, no matter how hard they study, they will never compete with students who have test and application boosts. Even so, I know I’ve enjoyed benefits that many other students haven’t because I’m white and have parents who are college graduates. I’m more angry on behalf of those with fewer resources than me who have to compete with those gaming the system.


 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Money talks and BS walks. Nothing has changed and it never will, the haves will always beat the have not.s

Government loans have just increased the cost of college ,it hasn't solved the problems of getting in.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
My daughter got into NYU on her own merit, although she's not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume. PS, she also got a scholarship.

So I find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school. This just isn't adding up for me, based on personal experience.
 
Reactions: BOP

transporter

Active Member
My daughter got into NYU on her own merit, although she's not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume. PS, she also got a scholarship.

So I find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school. This just isn't adding up for me, based on personal experience.

For those who "find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school.", here are the acceptance rates for some of the "name brand schools" that are part of the current story:

School Name# of Applicants (2017)Acceptance RateAverage SATAverage ACT
Stanford47,4504.3%152033
Harvard42,7494.6%154034
Columbia40,2035.5%153034
Princeton35,3705.5%152033
Yale35,3066.3%154033
MIT21,7066.7%152034
Pomona10,2456.9%150032
Brown35,4387.2%150032
UChicago32,2917.2%154034
Vanderbilt30,1467.3%153034
Caltech7,300+*8.0%*156035
Duke37,302+8.3%154034
Northwestern40,4258.4%151033
Penn44,4918.4%151032
Dartmouth22,0338.7%150032
Johns Hopkins27,0919.9%151033

https://blog.prepscholar.com/lowest-college-acceptance-rate

For those (like sipitbubble) who don't understand what the above means, kids who are "not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume." don't get into these schools...which is why everyone with money tries to find a way to buy an admission slot.

It's really not that difficult to understand.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
For those who "find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school.", here are the acceptance rates for some of the "name brand schools" that are part of the current story:

School Name# of Applicants (2017)Acceptance RateAverage SATAverage ACT
Stanford47,4504.3%152033
Harvard42,7494.6%154034
Columbia40,2035.5%153034
Princeton35,3705.5%152033
Yale35,3066.3%154033
MIT21,7066.7%152034
Pomona10,2456.9%150032
Brown35,4387.2%150032
UChicago32,2917.2%154034
Vanderbilt30,1467.3%153034
Caltech7,300+*8.0%*156035
Duke37,302+8.3%154034
Northwestern40,4258.4%151033
Penn44,4918.4%151032
Dartmouth22,0338.7%150032
Johns Hopkins27,0919.9%151033

https://blog.prepscholar.com/lowest-college-acceptance-rate

For those (like sipitbubble) who don't understand what the above means, kids who are "not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume." don't get into these schools...which is why everyone with money tries to find a way to buy an admission slot.

It's really not that difficult to understand.

You forgot to finish your rebuttal. NYU's acceptance rate in 2015-2016 was 32%. It was higher previously. This year was their "most selective in recent history" at 18%. So depending on when Vrai's daughter attended, she may well have only needed to spell her name correctly to be accepted.
 

CPUSA

Active Member
For those who "find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school.", here are the acceptance rates for some of the "name brand schools" that are part of the current story:

School Name# of Applicants (2017)Acceptance RateAverage SATAverage ACT
Stanford47,4504.3%152033
Harvard42,7494.6%154034
Columbia40,2035.5%153034
Princeton35,3705.5%152033
Yale35,3066.3%154033
MIT21,7066.7%152034
Pomona10,2456.9%150032
Brown35,4387.2%150032
UChicago32,2917.2%154034
Vanderbilt30,1467.3%153034
Caltech7,300+*8.0%*156035
Duke37,302+8.3%154034
Northwestern40,4258.4%151033
Penn44,4918.4%151032
Dartmouth22,0338.7%150032
Johns Hopkins27,0919.9%151033

https://blog.prepscholar.com/lowest-college-acceptance-rate

For those (like sipitbubble) who don't understand what the above means, kids who are "not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume." don't get into these schools...which is why everyone with money tries to find a way to buy an admission slot.

It's really not that difficult to understand.
Rumor has it, CSM refused to accept you.
Care to comment? If not, we'll just assume it's true...
You pathetic git...
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
For those who "find it hard to believe that a reasonably bright student would have to resort to these lengths to be accepted to a name brand school.", here are the acceptance rates for some of the "name brand schools" that are part of the current story:

School Name# of Applicants (2017)Acceptance RateAverage SATAverage ACT
Stanford47,4504.3%152033
Harvard42,7494.6%154034
Columbia40,2035.5%153034
Princeton35,3705.5%152033
Yale35,3066.3%154033
MIT21,7066.7%152034
Pomona10,2456.9%150032
Brown35,4387.2%150032
UChicago32,2917.2%154034
Vanderbilt30,1467.3%153034
Caltech7,300+*8.0%*156035
Duke37,302+8.3%154034
Northwestern40,4258.4%151033
Penn44,4918.4%151032
Dartmouth22,0338.7%150032
Johns Hopkins27,0919.9%151033

https://blog.prepscholar.com/lowest-college-acceptance-rate

For those (like sipitbubble) who don't understand what the above means, kids who are "not extraordinarily talented, nor does she have an alumni parent, nor was she in the top tier academically, nor was she coached in any way, nor did she have a knockout resume." don't get into these schools...which is why everyone with money tries to find a way to buy an admission slot.

It's really not that difficult to understand.
So you agree with people bribing and cheating to get into these schools.
 

Bushy23

Member
Jared Kushner got into Harvard because his dad donated 2.5 mi!lion. Look where he is now. It will continue to happen in a country where everything can be bought.

 

CPUSA

Active Member
Jared Kushner got into Harvard because his dad donated 2.5 mi!lion. Look where he is now. It will continue to happen in a country where everything can be bought.

Wow!! How about digging into how Obama got in.
Better yet, how Malia Obama got in...
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
Jared Kushner got into Harvard because his dad donated 2.5 mi!lion. Look where he is now. It will continue to happen in a country where everything can be bought.
Stop it. By all accounts, Jared Kushner is brilliant.

That's like Tucker Carlson was talking about this on his show and he had a pic of Chelsea Clinton as his graphic. By all accounts, she is highly capable and I believe that's true. Her cushy jobs post-graduation were clearly gotten for her, but she was accepted to Stanford and her other schools on her own merit.

Smart people typically have smart kids. I have no doubt Malia Obama was accepted to college on her own merit - she comes from smart industrious parents. Hollywood celebs, however, are notoriously stupid and wildly uneducated, and it stands to reason that their kids are dumb, too, not to mention lazy and entitled.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
I'm going to take the opposite approach and suggest that a Private college can admit on whatever basis it chooses (as long as it isn't against the law like race/religion). If that basis is who paid us the most, then that's fine. It may well hurt their academic standing if they do it too often, but that's their prerogative. Of course this is different than employees of said school doing this on their own for personal gain. Just like a store can choose their own prices, but would frown on a cashier charging extra and pocketing the difference.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Smart people typically have smart kids. I have no doubt Malia Obama was accepted to college on her own merit - she comes from smart industrious parents.
And smart rich people can afford the best tutors and private schools, so even if their kids are no better than average in intelligence, they will likely have a leg up academically.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
And smart rich people can afford the best tutors and private schools, so even if their kids are no better than average in intelligence, they will likely have a leg up academically.
That's just the way it is and always has been. I don't believe you really get a better functional education at Harvard than you do at UNL. The advantage of a prestigious school is that you rub elbows with the elite and powerful, which opens doors for you in the future. Success has always been a lot about who you know, even on a smaller scale.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
I'm going to take the opposite approach and suggest that a Private college can admit on whatever basis it chooses (as long as it isn't against the law like race/religion). If that basis is who paid us the most, then that's fine. It may well hurt their academic standing if they do it too often, but that's their prerogative. Of course this is different than employees of said school doing this on their own for personal gain. Just like a store can choose their own prices, but would frown on a cashier charging extra and pocketing the difference.
If we're going to go with changing the rules like that I'd get rid of that part about race/religion too. Let them pick whom soever they want, for any reason they want.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
There is a heavy emphasis on diversity quotas at colleges and universities. There has been for decades now, and there's no reason to think that that won't continue into the future. The competition is incredible to get into those schools, and it's understandable why parents would want to pursue any and all advantages in order to get their spawn into those institutions. That's not an excuse; that's real humans doing what real humans do in this world.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
A lot of people see this as a big deal, but I really don't.
What do I care what rich people do. I am not one of them and I am not jealous of their wealth.
My grandchildren have about as much chance of getting into Harvard or Yale as I have of winning the Lotto.
They are smart enough, but the tuition there is a stopper. No way in hell could I or they make that even if they had a scholarship.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
A lot of people see this as a big deal, but I really don't.
What do I care what rich people do. I am not one of them and I am not jealous of their wealth.
My grandchildren have about as much chance of getting into Harvard or Yale as I have of winning the Lotto.
They are smart enough, but the tuition there is a stopper. No way in hell could I or they make that even if they had a scholarship.
I'm in agreement here, it's an open secret that rich people can buy their way in to places, actresses sleep with producers to get parts and government nepotism is real. Live with it.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
Staff member
PREMO Member
A lot of people see this as a big deal, but I really don't.
What do I care what rich people do. I am not one of them and I am not jealous of their wealth.
My grandchildren have about as much chance of getting into Harvard or Yale as I have of winning the Lotto.
They are smart enough, but the tuition there is a stopper. No way in hell could I or they make that even if they had a scholarship.
It's a big deal because it's fun to rub their hypocrisy and elitism and entitlement in their face. Other than that, I'm with you - the vast majority of Americans aren't Harvard and Yale people, and being an Instagram celebrity isn't a realistic career choice for them. Kids get into college every year on their own merit, so it's not like you have to grease palms.

That kid who was bumped from wherever for Lori Loughlin's kid almost certainly was accepted somewhere else and is doing fine. As far as I can tell, all Ivy League school kids do is rub elbows with the elite and protest our President - when you aren't pampered by a rich Mommy and Dad, you have to get an education so you can earn a living.

Imagine having to fake being on crew team to get accepted to a prestigious school. Seriously?? Crew???
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
That's just the way it is and always has been. I don't believe you really get a better functional education at Harvard than you do at UNL.
Most of the time, this is generally true - the prestige of Harvard, MIT and other top schools lies in their graduate program.
When I worked at Harvard and lived in Cambridge, I knew a LOT of undergrads at Harvard and MIT, and most of them told
me that

  1. They were probably never going to get into the graduate school there and
  2. The hardest part about being a student at either was getting IN - both schools tried very hard to keep their undergrads in. MIT is pass/fail the first year or at least it used to be.
 
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