I would like to thank...

BernieP

Resident PIA
Former Governor Paris Glendenning and his "smart" growth policies.
Former St. Mary's County Commissioners and land use planners
State Highway Administration personnel, both former and current


You have succeeded in changing 235 between Great Mills Road and Airport Road into another version of Route 301 from Brandywine through Waldorf

Packing all that commercial activity and dozens of driveways on one small stretch of road was very sharp
The timing of traffic signals is excellent, it now takes a full hour to go 3 miles, just like 301.

Most of all, I'd like to thank the NIMBY's who supported this foolishness. You were as short sighted as the lawmakers and planners
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
It is truly amazing to behold...

We avoid the "rest" of the county like the plague. Anything beyond the 5/249 intersection in Callaway is "indian country".,,Dyson's excepted. I've never been more grateful for my 150-yard commute to the office.
 

spclopr8tr

New Member
Yep, if we could just get 15,000 of those 17,000 federal workers to leave and close all that new business growth along 235, St. Mary's could return to being the idyllic utopia it was was until the early 90s.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
Yep, if we could just get 15,000 of those 17,000 federal workers to leave and close all that new business growth along 235, St. Mary's could return to being the idyllic utopia it was was until the early 90s.
if they move 15000, just as easy to move everything. Nobody / Nothing can't be replaced and they lie when they say it's cost savings. Doubtful DoD recouped anything with all the BRAC.

Plus you take the contractor and other service jobs as well.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Yep, if we could just get 15,000 of those 17,000 federal workers to leave and close all that new business growth along 235, St. Mary's could return to being the idyllic utopia it was was until the early 90s.
Bingo. Don't I wish.....
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
It is truly amazing to behold...

We avoid the "rest" of the county like the plague. Anything beyond the 5/249 intersection in Callaway is "indian country".,,Dyson's excepted. I've never been more grateful for my 150-yard commute to the office.
Nice!
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
Former Governor Paris Glendenning and his "smart" growth policies.
Former St. Mary's County Commissioners and land use planners
State Highway Administration personnel, both former and current


You have succeeded in changing 235 between Great Mills Road and Airport Road into another version of Route 301 from Brandywine through Waldorf

Packing all that commercial activity and dozens of driveways on one small stretch of road was very sharp
The timing of traffic signals is excellent, it now takes a full hour to go 3 miles, just like 301.

Most of all, I'd like to thank the NIMBY's who supported this foolishness. You were as short sighted as the lawmakers and planners
It's the development district and it's never taken me an hour to go that stretch of three miles. It might help if people would live close to where they work. Folks want to have it both ways then complain about traffic on Rt. 235. Personally, I like having the retail along 235. Back when I first moved here, we'd have to go to Waldorf an Annapolis for any decent shopping. Now, it's right around the corner.
 

Baker12

New Member
I have been to every corner of Maryland, I have a home in St. Marys County, live mostly closer to DC and I can say that Lex Park ranks right up there with Wheaton, Bladensburg, the bad part s of Baltimore, taking into account the homes, the crime, the schools, and the people.
 

alicejohn

Member
Two questions:

One, if smart growth policies were not in effect, how do you think the buildup of business in the county be different? If I was a business person, wouldn't I want to build my business next to all of the other businesses to maximize the potential to lure customers? If you were going to build a movie theatre, would you build it where they built it or in, say, Callaway? If you owned Harris Teeters, would you build it where they are building it or in, say, Oakville? If you had a time machine and the authority to go back to the Glendenning days, what would you have done as a government official to control what people did with their property and businesses?

Two, when do you travel 235 where it takes you "...a full hour..." to traverse? From where to where? I assume by your statement that it happens often as opposed to the occasional gridlock from a traffic accident. I have been measuring my evening commute from when I go through the 235 light at gate 1 to when I go through the 235 light at Airport View Drive (Tractor Supply) for the last year. I have measured 172 trips from last to this Nov. A majority of my trips start from between 1530 and 1615. My shortest trip was 7 minutes 10 seconds when I started at 1300 on Monday, 2 Oct. The longest trip was 39 minutes 35 seconds on Monday, 14 Aug because of some kind of accident on the bridge (I started the commute at 1610). The average for all 172 commutes (including the 40 minute backup) was 14 minutes 48 seconds. (By the way, since the new coordinated light timing for the 235 traffic lights was started on 14 Aug, the commute has been 17 seconds faster (not including the 40 minute backup on 14 Aug)). So I ask again, when do you commute 235 where it takes "a full hour" every day?
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
At least two mornings this past week, a full hour inbound from Airport Rd to Gate. Most of that between Wildewood and Chancellors Run Rd.

Smart Growth wasn't about growth, it was about reducing sprawl, and jamming as much a given are.
It also prohibited upgrades of infrastructural to accommodate growth - as it would encourage sprawl.

Therefore you have one road with traffic lights and driveways packed end to end.

Nothing to allow bypass, or offload the traffic.

Which in times of weather or other emergency leads to gridlock, not just slow traffic.

FWIW, part of the problem with the lights is that people don't move when they turn green.
When they do move, it's a slow, halting start.
This means fewer vehicles get thru the intersection and most of all there is no "flow". Traffic backs up.
 

RetiredCPO

New Member
At least two mornings this past week, a full hour inbound from Airport Rd to Gate. Most of that between Wildewood and Chancellors Run Rd.

Smart Growth wasn't about growth, it was about reducing sprawl, and jamming as much a given are.
It also prohibited upgrades of infrastructural to accommodate growth - as it would encourage sprawl.

Therefore you have one road with traffic lights and driveways packed end to end.

Nothing to allow bypass, or offload the traffic.

Which in times of weather or other emergency leads to gridlock, not just slow traffic.

FWIW, part of the problem with the lights is that people don't move when they turn green.
When they do move, it's a slow, halting start.
This means fewer vehicles get thru the intersection and most of all there is no "flow". Traffic backs up.
Exactly, lights turn green around here and people move as if they are the only ones who need to get through! I have a short distance to get home, but it is extended every time I hit a red light. Not by the light, but by the people texting and talking on the phone at the red light who are not paying attention to driving.

And if they ever get FDR completed, those who live local could get home sooner while relieving traffic on 235.
 
>snip<
(By the way, since the new coordinated light timing for the 235 traffic lights was started on 14 Aug, the commute has been 17 seconds faster (not including the 40 minute backup on 14 Aug)).

Regarding the 'coordinated light timing', is that just for the morning commute times? Because there definitely doesn't seem to be any difference in the evenings.....
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
>snip<



Regarding the 'coordinated light timing', is that just for the morning commute times? Because there definitely doesn't seem to be any difference in the evenings.....
I think the problem is that Walmart has basically three lights, the Town Creak light and the one by Chesseldine are definitely not coordinated.
That light between Town Creek Dr and Shady Mile really gums up the works - the ripple effect just backs up down the entire length to gate 2 on some nights.
The traffic pattern in the evening commute is not a mirror of the morning. I think there is a higher density of vehicles because more people are out on 235.

The other impact on 235 is that at some left turn signals only 3 cars get thru because people making U-turns don't clear the intersection quickly
I also see more people making U-turns in the evening than in the morning.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
I believe that concentrating commercial development along that corridor was a good concept. I believe that doing it the way they did was completely idiotic. Rather than 30 curb cuts onto the main highway, 235 should be intersection free with a service road along the commercial properties and 2 or 3 grade separated intersections to mix commercial and commuter traffic. The way they laid it out now, there is not even an opportunity to pull it into separate lanes down the line.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
I believe that concentrating commercial development along that corridor was a good concept. I believe that doing it the way they did was completely idiotic. Rather than 30 curb cuts onto the main highway, 235 should be intersection free with a service road along the commercial properties and 2 or 3 grade separated intersections to mix commercial and commuter traffic. The way they laid it out now, there is not even an opportunity to pull it into separate lanes down the line.
But Smart growth didn't allow for new roads. The idea was to reuse existing properties. look at the way First Colony alone is laid out. The parking lots and roads are a zoo.
Now imagine if all the businesses were under a single roof, or at least connected along a "town center" concept where you could walk from Best Buy to BJ's under cover (even if it was outside.
At least the new shopping center on the north side of RT go rid of the strip center in front. No, we have 5 driveways prior to the light at First Colony - not including the Wa Wa.
It was mismanaged because those properties were owned by good ole boy insiders who got to develop their postage size lot.
####, if those strip centers and office buildings along 235 were made to connect to a feeder road on the First Colony property it would be better. Same for Blairs, they should not have a separate curb cut along with the entrance to the Food Lion / KMART center.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
It was mismanaged because those properties were owned by good ole boy insiders who got to develop their postage size lot.
####, if those strip centers and office buildings along 235 were made to connect to a feeder road on the First Colony property it would be better. Same for Blairs, they should not have a separate curb cut along with the entrance to the Food Lion / KMART center.
What complicated development in this area is the fact that the government rail track to pax was preserved as rail property until only a couple of years ago. So connecting those office buildings across that ROW would have required an act of congress.

But yes, all those curb cuts should be abandoned and a service road to connect all this stuff should run along the railroad ROW.
 
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