In the matter of George Zimmerman

[Bay_Kat]

In all her useless ramblings, Jantel did mention something that stuck with me. She said Martin asked her to check to see if the game started yet. To me this sounds like someone who wants to get home to watch a game. That's just me.

Also, I've heard it said in the media, and possibly in the trial, that it was the middle of the night, it was 6 or 7 in the evening, that's not the middle of the night.

 

[itsrequired]

In all her useless ramblings, Jantel did mention something that stuck with me. She said Martin asked her to check to see if the game started yet. To me this sounds like someone who wants to get home to watch a game. That's just me.

Also, I've heard it said in the media, and possibly in the trial, that it was the middle of the night, it was 6 or 7 in the evening, that's not the middle of the night.

Do you not remember Diamond, Jantel, Dee Dee who grew up in the U.S. with her mother but her mother doesn't speak English very well and cracker is not a racial term saying she told Trayvon to run home and he said no?

 

[Bay_Kat]

Do you not remember Diamond, Jantel, Dee Dee who grew up in the U.S. with her mother but her mother doesn't speak English very well and cracker is not a racial term saying she told Trayvon to run home and he said no?

Of course, like I said useless ramblings, but for some reason that one thing just stuck with me.

 

[Midnightrider]

I don't know how you got that from what I said, but I'll play devil's advocate. It's possible that Zimmerman didn't stop following Martin.

I'm just trying to figure out your timeline and how you came to it. If the deedee following was after zimmerman got out of the car then it doesn't support his story.

If that call coincides with Zimmerman following in the car there is no evidence Martin knew Zimmerman got out of the car. He would have thought the "incident" was over until he saw Zimmerman approaching him on foot.

 

[itsrequired]

I'm just trying to figure out your timeline and how you came to it. If the deedee following was after zimmerman got out of the car then it doesn't support his story.

If that call coincides with Zimmerman following in the car there is no evidence Martin knew Zimmerman got out of the car. He would have thought the "incident" was over until he saw Zimmerman approaching him on foot.

I don't know. What does it matter? If I percieve you are following me does that give me the right to assault you?

 

[Bay_Kat]

I don't know. What does it matter? If I percieve you are following me does that give me the right to assault you?

With all the loonies out there, if someone is following me and I think they are creepy, I'll get the drop on them before they can get it on me. Problem was Zimmerman was armed and Martin wasn't.

Would it be okay for a sexual predator to follow a kid around a shopping mall? To me, following is stalking.

Zimmerman didn't identify himself as neighborhood watch or anything, that makes him a creepy Joe Blow.

 

[itsrequired]

With all the loonies out there, if someone is following me and I think they are creepy, I'll get the drop on them before they can get it on me. Problem was Zimmerman was armed and Martin wasn't.

Would it be okay for a sexual predator to follow a kid around a shopping mall? To me, following is stalking.

Zimmerman didn't identify himself as neighborhood watch or anything, that makes him a creepy Joe Blow.

Yes it's okay for a sexual predator to follow a kid around a shopping center. Unfotunately in this country there is nothing illegal about that. Zimmerman doesn't have to identify himself to anyone in his own neighborhood. He can follow whomever he likes. Zimmerman, by the way called the police. He saw something he thought was wrong and reached out for help. Who did Martin call? Dee Dee/Jantel/Diamond.

Are you saying that Zimmerman, a homeowner who called the police should be compared to a sexual predator stalking a kid?

 

[Midnightrider]

I don't know. What does it matter? If I percieve you are following me does that give me the right to assault you?

It matters because the way that it would support zimmermans story would also mean that Martin wouldn't know Zimmerman got out of the car. That means Martin wouldn't have felt like he needed to run.

The other way, Zimmerman following Martin on foot after Zimmerman gets out of the car, does not support zimmermans story.


Btw, one of the things that jumps out at me is the "jumped out of the bushes" statement. I don't see too many bushes that would hide a 6' tall guy. Anybody have a link to any good picks of the scene including surrounding shrubbery?

 

[Bay_Kat]

Yes it's okay for a sexual predator to follow a kid around a shopping center. Unfotunately in this country there is nothing illegal about that. Zimmerman doesn't have to identify himself to anyone in his own neighborhood. He can follow whomever he likes. Zimmerman, by the way called the police. He saw something he thought was wrong and reached out for help. Who did Martin call? Dee Dee/Jantel/Diamond.

Are you saying that Zimmerman, a homeowner who called the police should be compared to a sexual predator stalking a kid?

Not saying that at all, but with him not identifying himself, he could have been anybody.

The neighborhood watch in my neighborhood drive marked cars provided by the county police, they wear uniforms that look like police. If one came up on you, you'd think he was a cop. The do not carry guns due to liability. I know one personally and I have asked him lots of questions. They are all retired police officers and all volunteer.

I don't care what the verdict is, makes no difference to me.

 

[itsrequired]

Not saying that at all, but with him not identifying himself, he could have been anybody.

The neighborhood watch in my neighborhood drive marked cars provided by the county police, they wear uniforms that look like police. If one came up on you, you'd think he was a cop. The do not carry guns due to liability. I know one personally and I have asked him lots of questions. They are all retired police officers and all volunteer.

I don't care what the verdict is, makes no difference to me.

If you are saying they are all retired cops and don't carry guns, I question either their honesty with you, or your honesty with me. I know a lot of retired cops and very few of them don't carry their guns everywhere they go.

 

[Bay_Kat]

If you are saying they are all retired cops and don't carry guns, I question either their honesty with you, or your honesty with me. I know a lot of retired cops and very few of them don't carry their guns everywhere they go.

They carry them personally, but no during neighborhood watch. This is what I was told. Lying to me? I doubt it, but who knows.

 

[itsrequired]

It matters because the way that it would support zimmermans story would also mean that Martin wouldn't know Zimmerman got out of the car. That means Martin wouldn't have felt like he needed to run.

The other way, Zimmerman following Martin on foot after Zimmerman gets out of the car, does not support zimmermans story.


Btw, one of the things that jumps out at me is the "jumped out of the bushes" statement. I don't see too many bushes that would hide a 6' tall guy. Anybody have a link to any good picks of the scene including surrounding shrubbery?

I'll say this, something I don't think you would ever admit if you were in my position. I don't think Zimmerman is telling the truth about everything that happened. That too doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is the testimony I have heard so far which is pretty clear that Martin threw the first punch and Martin was on top of Zimmerman. I don't care what actions took place before that. I don't care if Zimmerman baited Martin to throw the first punch. We live in a society where it is unlawful to assault another person. Martin in my opinion after hearing the states case is a criminal. There is no evidence thus far which has convinced me of the same about Zimmerman.

 

[Lurk]

I'm just trying to figure out your timeline and how you came to it. If the deedee following was after zimmerman got out of the car then it doesn't support his story.

If that call coincides with Zimmerman following in the car there is no evidence Martin knew Zimmerman got out of the car. He would have thought the "incident" was over until he saw Zimmerman approaching him on foot.

Which of the almost 20 phone calls with Dee Dee are you selectively dealing with in this current circular discussion?

 

[Bay_Kat]

I'll say this, something I don't think you would ever admit if you were in my position. I don't think Zimmerman is telling the truth about everything that happened. That too doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is the testimony I have heard so far which is pretty clear that Martin threw the first punch and Martin was on top of Zimmerman. I don't care what actions took place before that. I don't care if Zimmerman baited Martin to throw the first punch. We live in a society where it is unlawful to assault another person. Martin in my opinion after hearing the states case is a criminal. There is no evidence thus far which has convinced me of the same about Zimmerman.

I agree with you and like I said, I don't care one way or the other, I just know when they read the verdict there are going to be some very unhappy people and it's not only going to be ugly in Sanford Florida, but pretty much everywhere in the country.

 

[MarieB]

With all the loonies out there, if someone is following me and I think they are creepy, I'll get the drop on them before they can get it on me. Problem was Zimmerman was armed and Martin wasn't.

Would it be okay for a sexual predator to follow a kid around a shopping mall? To me, following is stalking.

Zimmerman didn't identify himself as neighborhood watch or anything, that makes him a creepy Joe Blow.

Meh

I'm not buying it. You have legs AND a phone. You run and call the police

And you don't double back if you can make it home.

 

[Midnightrider]

I'll say this, something I don't think you would ever admit if you were in my position. I don't think Zimmerman is telling the truth about everything that happened. That too doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is the testimony I have heard so far which is pretty clear that Martin threw the first punch and Martin was on top of Zimmerman. I don't care what actions took place before that. I don't care if Zimmerman baited Martin to throw the first punch. We live in a society where it is unlawful to assault another person. Martin in my opinion after hearing the states case is a criminal. There is no evidence thus far which has convinced me of the same about Zimmerman.

You believe he isn't telling the entire truth and that doesn't bother you? it should.

I would be skeptical if Martin had been the lone survivor too. As I have said before, I would want him to face a jury just like Zimmerman is. Although I would think Martin would have a stronger SYG defense given the circumstances Zimmerman described.

I am pretty sure you are about to find out that in Florida you lose SYG and self defense when you are advancing or following someone.

 

[Salvador]

This thread is part car wreck part merry go round. Makin me dizzzy

 

[aps45819]

So what you are saying is that Zimmerman did follow on foot and was actively trailing Martin when Martin was talking to deedee?

You seem to be obsessed with the idea that following someone and watching them is an aggressive act that justifies a physical assault.

It's not aggressive, it's not illegal and it's not a reason to assault somebody.

 

[itsrequired]

You believe he isn't telling the entire truth and that doesn't bother you? it should.

I would be skeptical if Martin had been the lone survivor too. As I have said before, I would want him to face a jury just like Zimmerman is. Although I would think Martin would have a stronger SYG defense given the circumstances Zimmerman described.

I am pretty sure you are about to find out that in Florida you lose SYG and self defense when you are advancing or following someone.

I have been in the business of speaking to people who have been involved in critical incidents for well over twenty years. It has been my experience, not supposition, that many of those people tailor the story to make themselves look better. So no, it doesn’t bother me.

What I look at is not simply Zimmerman’s words, but the evidence in this case. The evidence; Zimmerman’s clothes being wet on the back, Zimmerman’s injuries consistent with having his head slammed into the ground, along with a broken nose, along with witness’ accounts that someone yelling for help and that being one of the first things Zimmerman says after shooting someone. Zimmerman has to be a calculating person to be able to come up with that at that very second.

Monday morning quarterbacks may not see details such as that as important, but things like that said contemporaneous with the incident are very important.

I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I think your idea of SYG is wrong. Stand your ground means that you may defend yourself and not retreat if you are being attacked. I cannot find any evidence so far that indicates Zimmerman attacked Martin, but if you know of some please let me know I’d be willing to listen. Stand your ground does not allow you to assault someone that is doing something which is legal but creepy to you.

 

[Midnightrider]

I have been in the business of speaking to people who have been involved in critical incidents for well over twenty years. It has been my experience, not supposition, that many of those people tailor the story to make themselves look better. So no, it doesn’t bother me.

What I look at is not simply Zimmerman’s words, but the evidence in this case. The evidence; Zimmerman’s clothes being wet on the back, Zimmerman’s injuries consistent with having his head slammed into the ground, along with a broken nose, along with witness’ accounts that someone yelling for help and that being one of the first things Zimmerman says after shooting someone. Zimmerman has to be a calculating person to be able to come up with that at that very second.

Monday morning quarterbacks may not see details such as that as important, but things like that said contemporaneous with the incident are very important.

I am not trying to be disrespectful, but I think your idea of SYG is wrong. Stand your ground means that you may defend yourself and not retreat if you are being attacked. I cannot find any evidence so far that indicates Zimmerman attacked Martin, but if you know of some please let me know I’d be willing to listen. Stand your ground does not allow you to assault someone that is doing something which is legal but creepy to you.

I think you should read florida's SYG. SYG does not require you to have been assaulted prior to defending yourself.

Lets say a person is pointing a gun at you, do you need to wait until he shoots you to defend yourself? Not in Florida

How about a knife? Nope, you don't need to have been stabbed
How about a 2x4? Nope, don't need to be hit.

So if Martin believed that he was in eminent danger from Zimmerman he had the right to defend himself. After all, they were apparently in a high crime area where just walking down the street is suspicious. Imagine how suspicious someone following you must be.

If if doesn't bother you that Zimmerman isn't telling the whole truth, that's just sad.