Is It OK if President Obama is a Muslim?

Starman3000m

New Member
If the beast hasn't been revealed yet, then how do you know it's Islam?

How many people have been believed to be this beast? Hitler? The Pope? The RCC? Bush?

Today we have Islam. With every generation there is a 'sign' that the end is near.


Yes - good point PsyOps. However, as mentioned, the "beast" is comprised of various "symbolic" elements that come together to represent one entity of power/system. That's where the "mark of the beast" comes in to play. You either belong to that system through some sort of identification mark or you refuse to take that ID and suffer the consequences of not going along with the system.

The antichrist and the false prophet are the two characters that co-control the system during that time period. That is when the "supernatural" activities visibly take place. It's obvious that period has not happened because the formation of the one world governmental system is not yet in place.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Yes - good point PsyOps. However, as mentioned, the "beast" is comprised of various "symbolic" elements that come together to represent one entity of power/system. That's where the "mark of the beast" comes in to play. You either belong to that system through some sort of identification mark or you refuse to take that ID and suffer the consequences of not going along with the system.

The antichrist and the false prophet are the two characters that co-control the system during that time period. That is when the "supernatural" activities visibly take place. It's obvious that period has not happened because the formation of the one world governmental system is not yet in place.

Okay... so remind me again how you conlcude it's Islam?
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Okay... so remind me again how you conlcude it's Islam?

The ongoing goal of Islam is the establishment of a Caliphate System that controls the entire world and subjects all nations and people to accept Islam as the only true religion and confess that Muhammad is the "prophet of Allah", the last and final prophet of the world.

Iran's prez, Ahmadinejad, is ready to unleash all efforts to expedite the appearance of the Islamic saviuor, al-Mahdi. The Islamic prophecy claims that in the end of days, Al-mahdi will appear along with prophet Isa' (the Islamic Jesus). between the two of them, the world will be brought to Islam and Isa' will teach from the Qur'an.

If you have ever heard the testimony of Walid Shoebat, an ex-Muslim, he converted to Christianity after reading the Bible when he realized that the Biblical antichrist and false prophet are the Islamic counter-parts: al-Mahdi and Isa ruling the world. Shoebat realized that as a Muslim he was on "the wrong side".

BTW: Interesting to note that the Islamic belief is that al-Mahdi will rule for seven (7) years; the same time period that the Book of Revelation gives for the rule of antichrist. The first half being a pseudo-peace period and the second half being the period of Great Tribulation.

Muslims are known to sign peace treaties only to break them at their will when they feel empowered enough to overcome their enemy. This is called Hudna.
 
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Toxick

Splat
Um...did you not get the memo?

The antichrist will behead those who refuse to renounce their faith in Jesus and refuse to accept the Mark of the Beast.



And this contradicts what I said, how exactly?

I saw nothing in your Qu'ran quote that indicated that they intended to issue and/or enforce a mark of any kind.

I granted that the beheadings is a tenuous connection. And I say tenuous because - as I mentioned - decapitation is the favored style of execution for many cultures. Islam neither thought up, nor perfected the art of head-removal.

Therefore my point, since I apparently did not express it clearly, was that if the verses you quoted had said something like, "The righteous shall bear the Mark of Islam, and those who do not take the mark shall have their god damned heads whacked off", I'd be a lot more receptive to the idea that the Beast-Endorsed One World Religion is Islam.

As it is, I not only doubt that the OWR is/will be Islam, I actively believe that it's not/won't be.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Trinity and Rapture are names given to conveniently label explicit concepts described in the bible. (Although, I'm on the fence about the pre-tribulation rapture).
Uh, so is Islam...

Pre trib rapture is a concept that is not biblical and was introduced in the late 1830's by Margaret MacDonald and further proliferated by John Darby.
Toxick said:
Islam is a very specific speculation overlaid onto a concept from the bible which was written some 600 years before the concept of Islam was even considered. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.
So the Bible can't speak of or know of Islam because it wasn't created yet? :confused:
Toxick said:
And I ALWAYS allow for the possibility that I'm wrong. I don't believe that I am wrong (or else I would change my belief to one I think is correct), but I avoid speaking in absolutes...
So you don't ever speak in absolutes? Why not? Don't you believe the Bible allows us to do that?
I’m not sure how you can extrapolate literal meanings from a book that is nearly completely allegorical. In the end times will there be a literal beast with 10 horns and seven heads to rise up out of the sea? Will the beast literally look like a leopard, have feet like a bear and have a mouth like that of a lion? If these are only symbolic representations of who the beast is, then why would you believe people will literally be beheaded? My learning of this chapter is that the beheading is a representation of the removal of the head of Christ; the church. That the church – Christ’s Church – will be removed from existence on earth.
The horns & beasts are figurative words but beheading is beheading. Not every word of Rev is figurative but it just fits too easy to ignore it's meaning, otherwise God could have said: they would be killed by the sword instead of beheaded.

"Removal of the head of Christ"?? Do you believe the Bible says that God's entire church will be removed from the earth BEFORE the end of time? (If you're implying a pre trib rapture)...
If the beast hasn't been revealed yet, then how do you know it's Islam? How many people have been believed to be this beast? Hitler? The Pope? The RCC? Bush? Today we have Islam. With every generation there is a 'sign' that the end is near.
IMO, Islam fits the description wayyy better than any other I've ever seen. Hitler wasn't big enough to fit the bill.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
And this contradicts what I said, how exactly?

I saw nothing in your Qu'ran quote that indicated that they intended to issue and/or enforce a mark of any kind.

I granted that the beheadings is a tenuous connection. And I say tenuous because - as I mentioned - decapitation is the favored style of execution for many cultures. Islam neither thought up, nor perfected the art of head-removal.

Therefore my point, since I apparently did not express it clearly, was that if the verses you quoted had said something like, "The righteous shall bear the Mark of Islam, and those who do not take the mark shall have their god damned heads whacked off", I'd be a lot more receptive to the idea that the Beast-Endorsed One World Religion is Islam.

As it is, I not only doubt that the OWR is/will be Islam, I actively believe that it's not/won't be.

Okay, okay, okay! Yes, we agree that the "beheadings" are part of the Islamic way of dealing with Infidels. But now you want to know about a certain "mark" you say? Well, in the book of Revelation, the mark is supposed to bear the name of the antichrist, correct?

Remember when Jesus spoke about false prophets that would one day come and people would receive them instead of Him?

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

and in the Book of Revelation, the mark signifies the system and the number of a man that heads up the One World Government/One World Religion:

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:16-18)

Now, read the following account of Muhammad's prophethood which was revealed as a birthmark:

Amongst the citizens of Mecca were several Jews, one of whom was knowledgeable of the scriptures. He knew from his learning and the signs of the time that the birth of a new prophet was imminent and anxiously awaited his arrival.

On the night Prophet Muhammad, (sa) was born, a strange feeling came over him that prompted him to rush to the door of his house and ask some Koraysh tribesmen, who happened to be passing, if they had heard of any births that night. The tribesmen replied that they knew of none, so he asked them to go and find out then bring word to him. He felt sure that this was the night in which the new prophet had been born, and if his feelings were correct he knew he would indeed be able to recognize him by a special, prominent mark on his skin that lay between his shoulders.

Sometime later, the tribesmen returned to the expectant Jew and told him that a son had indeed been born to Lady Amina, the widowed wife of Abdullah, son of Abd Al Muttalib. The Jew asked them to take him to see the newly born and his mother, so in haste they made their way to Abu Talib's house. When they arrived, Lady Amina presented her darling son to them and as the cloth that covered him was gently rolled back the Jew saw the unmistakable mark and fainted.

When he regained consciousness he announced the prophethood had been taken away from the Children of Israel and said, "O people of Koraysh, by Allah, he will conquer you in a way that the news will traverse both east and west." The mark the Jew referred to was circular and read, "There is no god except Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet", and it was from this identifying mark that the sweet aroma of musk exuded.

The Most Advanced Curiculum of Prophetic Saying

That "mark" comprises the Sahada (statement of faith that needs to be recited in order to become a Muslim) and is seen on the flag of Saudi Arabia and on several Islamic banners.

Want more proof of what's in store? The Caliphate will impose Shari'a Laws on a global scale when Islam takes control of the One World Governmental System. Open your eyes, friend, and see how this is unfolding now even within the politically-correct acceptance of our government giving in to Islamic influences.

Now very possible that the "mark" that was on Muhammad at birth will be the one to be required of all people in the future and those who do not accept it are in essence rejecting allegiance to Allah and Muhammad and must be dealt with according to Shari'a Law.
 
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Toxick

Splat
Now very possible that the "mark" that was on Muhammad at birth will be the one to be required of all people in the future and those who do not accept it are in essence rejecting allegience to Allah and Muhammad and must be dealt with according to Shari'a Law.



I've read these arguments before, and it smacks of seeing what you want to see, IMO.

Nothing here indicates that they're going to force people to bear that mark on their heads or hands as is specified in Revelation.


If you're going to fall behind the blanket of "symbolism" my response will simply be you can interpret any symbol however you want. And PsyOps argument that even the decapitations are merely symbolic of removing the head of the Church becomes way more concrete in this branch of the discussion.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
I've read these arguments before, and it smacks of seeing what you want to see, IMO.

Nothing here indicates that they're going to force people to bear that mark on their heads or hands as is specified in Revelation.

If you're going to fall behind the blanket of "symbolism" my response will simply be you can interpret any symbol however you want. And PsyOps argument that even the decapitations are merely symbolic of removing the head of the Church becomes way more concrete in this branch of the discussion.

We shall see.

Meanwhile, be aware of the calls for how a "New World Order" will be needed to help "stabilize" the global economy and bring a "peaceful" solution to the world's problems in all societies. The U.S. economy is weak. Islamic countries are buying up properties and politicians.

"My country's history, Mr. President, tells us that it is possible to fashion unity while cherishing diversity, that common action is possible despite the variety of races, interests, and beliefs we see here in this chamber. Progress and peace and justice are attainable. So we say to all peoples and governments: Let us fashion together a New World Order." -- Henry Kissinger, in address before the General Assembly of the United Nations, October 1975)


The "New World Order that is in the making must focus on the creation of a world of democracy, peace and prosperity for all." -- Nelson Mandela, in the Philadelphia Inquirer (October 1994)

"People are becoming more and more aware of the need for a New International
Order..." John Paul II, World Day of Peace Homily, Jan. 1, 2004

And, that's just for starters! :coffee:
 
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