Is this theft?

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

If she's such an amoral hardened criminal, why did she take them to the cops?

Answer that one question - why did she take the guns to the cops?

Because she was playing, acting, as being the responsible victim. Wanting to drive the knife deeper into the back of this guy.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

I would say she's not real bright (evidenced by her taking up with a beater in the first place).

I'm believing you now to be a crazy feminist. You default to this guy being guilty before any proof or evidence has been submitted that shows him to be a, "beater". For all we know, this is an orchestrated personal destruction of a man by total fabrication, whole cloth lie, because she is a bitch that got her panties in a bunch over a simple misunderstanding, or because she didn't get her way.

 

[Merlin99]

If she's such an amoral hardened criminal, why did she take them to the cops?

Answer that one question - why did she take the guns to the cops?

Because she thought that as the helpless little girl she was entitled to get the bad guns away from the evil man. I'm sure that the very thought that she would be held accountable for her actions never entered her mind.

 

[vraiblonde]

So there's no way that she was afraid for her life and trying to protect herself by getting this guy's guns away from him? It's definitely that she's a conniving bitch who made that guy miserable, then had him jailed on false charges, then stole his guns? And she did it because she thinks women are above the law based solely on their velocisnappers?

I'm not even sure how to respond to that kind of hatred toward women. I'm probably sorry for you, at least on some level.

 

[Monello]

can't be Gilligan - women love you!

Just the ones on the tequila bust road trip bus.

 

[This_person]

So there's no way that she was afraid for her life and trying to protect herself by getting this guy's guns away from him? It's definitely that she's a conniving bitch who made that guy miserable, then had him jailed on false charges, then stole his guns? And she did it because she thinks women are above the law based solely on their velocisnappers?

I'm not even sure how to respond to that kind of hatred toward women. I'm probably sorry for you, at least on some level.

It's not hatred towards women, no matter how many times you repeat that line.

I suspect she may have been in fear for her life from a potential that he might, after he got released from prison, do something he'd never done with the weapons before (at least, never documented as such) and didn't threaten her with previously and wasn't in line with the threat she actually faced from him (his car), assuming he would violate the restraining order and the order to not use his weapons. She probably did have a fear of him maybe someday doing all of those things that were not an issue previously.

But, that fear does NOT in any way justify premature action. You sound like the quintessential gun grabber that someone might maybe someday think to do something bad with their weapons, so take them now before they do. There's not an electron microscope in existence that demonstrates this man is a threat with his weapons (of which there is documented evidence or allegations - let alone convictions). Thus, the fear is based entirely on conjecture and not an actual imminent threat.

The response to non-imminent threats is to be prepared to defend oneself. By your line of reasoning, she would have been well within her rights to defend herself by killing him as he exited the prison, because she was in fear for her life from what he MIGHT do someday, maybe, if just given the chance.

So, no matter how many times you say it has some sexual hatred associated with it, that just ain't true. If the sexes were reversed and the actions the same, I personally would be in the exact same position on this subject - it's wrong to break into someone's home and steal from them because you don't like what they have and think that maybe they might someday use those things to hurt you personally, though there's no evidence that they will. That has nothing to do with the sex of the offender, just like ramming someone's car is not only bad if men do it, it's bad if women do it, too.

Why do you think it is ok for her to break and enter? Do you really think she did not know breaking and entering and stealing was wrong; rather, that she simply knew she was above the law, entitled to do these things because of that entitlement? You've asked me to answer, but you refuse to answer the response - give it a try and just debate the same way you asked me to do, and I answered you.

 

[Merlin99]

So there's no way that she was afraid for her life and trying to protect herself by getting this guy's guns away from him? It's definitely that she's a conniving bitch who made that guy miserable, then had him jailed on false charges, then stole his guns? And she did it because she thinks women are above the law based solely on their velocisnappers?

I'm not even sure how to respond to that kind of hatred toward women. I'm probably sorry for you, at least on some level.

So you've made the lefts point for them now. All of the illegal immigrants are in fear for their lives so any and all illegal behavior is excusable.

 

[MiddleGround]

You've asked me to answer, but you refuse to answer the response - give it a try and just debate the same way you asked me to do, and I answered you.

You already received the typical board mommy 'I can't justify my position or explain why I took that position so, after my meaningless rambles I will just say "I am done with this." or "I cannot make you understand this" or just put you on ignore.

You have been here for a while... you know the drill

 

[vraiblonde]

So you've made the lefts point for them now. All of the illegal immigrants are in fear for their lives so any and all illegal behavior is excusable.

Yeah, there's that shark....

I'm just surprised that none of you have even the slightest bit of understanding, if not sympathy, for this woman. She's a "poor widdle wady" and a "bitch" who "deserves to be punished".

I honestly didn't expect that sort of hostility out of you all.

 

[Merlin99]

Yeah, there's that shark....

I'm just surprised that none of you have even the slightest bit of understanding, if not sympathy, for this woman. She's a "poor widdle wady" and a "bitch" who "deserves to be punished".

I honestly didn't expect that sort of hostility out of you all.

Let's say our genders color what we see here. Where you see hostility the XY gender sees only a B&E and theft of personal property.

 

[This_person]

Yeah, there's that shark....

I'm just surprised that none of you have even the slightest bit of understanding, if not sympathy, for this woman. She's a "poor widdle wady" and a "bitch" who "deserves to be punished".

I honestly didn't expect that sort of hostility out of you all.

She stole. She had no justifiable reason to steal. Being afraid someone else might hurt you is not a justifiable reason to steal, it's a justifiable reason to protect yourself.

Do you really think she did not know she was doing something illegal, but rather decided it was ok to do the illegal thing because she was entitled to?

Seriously, just tell me what you think.

 

[GWguy]

I'm just surprised that none of you have even the slightest bit of understanding, if not sympathy, for this woman.

I don't think it's that at all. Anyone with any empathy or sympathy can understand she may have been afraid for her well being. But it did not justify her actions.
The question of whether it was theft or not is, Yes, it is. She had other options available to her, like making the police aware of the weapons. But she took it upon herself to ignore the law, the same laws she wants to protect her. As was mentioned above, his property. He should have been given an opportunity by authorities to remove or dispose of the weapons as he saw fit, not have them stolen and lost forever.

 

[vraiblonde]

Let's say our genders color what we see here. Where you see hostility the XY gender sees only a B&E and theft of personal property.

Mmmm....no. You've seen me rip the pussy hat women and others of my gender right on here, and you've also seen me take up for the mens when they have been targeted by these harpies. I don't automatically stick up for women just because I am one, and you know that.

 

[This_person]

Mmmm....no. You've seen me rip the pussy hat women and others of my gender right on here, and you've also seen me take up for the mens when they have been targeted by these harpies. I don't automatically stick up for women just because I am one, and you know that.

Do you really think she did not know she was doing something illegal, but rather decided it was ok to do the illegal thing because she was entitled to?

Seriously, just tell me what you think.

 

[vraiblonde]

She stole. She had no justifiable reason to steal. Being afraid someone else might hurt you is not a justifiable reason to steal, it's a justifiable reason to protect yourself.

I disagree. All I know is what was in the story, and it sounds to me like she did believe that she was in danger, and she did think that taking the guns was justified. She used to be married to him, and I presume they lived together at the time, so maybe she didn't really think of it as breaking and entering or illegal. I doubt she gave it a whole lot of real thought, considering what a flawed plan it was all the way around.

Do you really think she did not know she was doing something illegal, but rather decided it was ok to do the illegal thing because she was entitled to?

As I've already said, she doesn't come across as terribly bright and I have no idea what she was thinking (neither do you all, btw). What seems reasonable is that she was in fear for her safety from this man who had beaten and threatened her in the past (that's what he was in jail for), so she broke into his home and stole his weapons, then turned them over to the police. I think in her mind she felt she was doing the right thing for her own safety. Otherwise she'd have just kept them or hidden them or something.

What I DON'T think is that she went, "Oooh! I'm so cute and I have a vagina!! I'm going to break into douchie's house and steal his stuff, then go be cutsie to the cops, who will fall in love with me and my super cute vagina!"

Did she steal anything else, or just the guns? Because if she's just a thief, why not take some money or valuables? Why take guns and then give them to the cops?

 

[vraiblonde]

I don't think it's that at all. Anyone with any empathy or sympathy can understand she may have been afraid for her well being. But it did not justify her actions.
The question of whether it was theft or not is, Yes, it is. She had other options available to her, like making the police aware of the weapons. But she took it upon herself to ignore the law, the same laws she wants to protect her. As was mentioned above, his property. He should have been given an opportunity by authorities to remove or dispose of the weapons as he saw fit, not have them stolen and lost forever.

My point is that you all are defaulting to her having malicious intent (because bitches be evil, yo), when it's pretty clear she didn't give it much actual thought.

 

[Gilligan]

....because bitches be evil, yo....

Ahh...so you've met my exes... ;-)

 

[kwillia]

My point is that you all are defaulting to her having malicious intent (because bitches be evil, yo), when it's pretty clear she didn't give it much actual thought.

Looks like Florida Rep. Anna Eskamani has the same conclusion as you... why she decided to get involved:

Eskamani said she is hesitant to intrude into a legal case, but she felt compelled to do so after hearing reports of Taylor Irby’s arrest.
“The reality is that the system that we’re operating within is one that has disappointed domestic violence survivors for decades,” Eskamani said. “Survivors are shamed in many instances and, in this case, are incarcerated for seeking actions to protect themselves and their children.”
Eskamani said it seems clear Taylor Irby was attempting to address an order she had heard a judge make requiring her estranged husband to give up his weapons.

“So she was doing what seemed the appropriate thing to do, based on that decision of the judicial system,” Eskamani said. “So I’m hopeful that the State Attorney will look at all the evidence but also keep in consideration how this is a system that has historically denied justice to survivors of domestic violence.”

State attorney urged to drop case against Courtney Irby, Lakeland woman arrested for giving estranged husband's guns to police

Florida Rep. Anna Eskamani, D-Orlando, sends letter to State Attorney Brian Haas requesting charges not be pursued against Lakeland woman for taking and turning in weapons to police that belonged to …

www.theledger.com

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

My point is that you all are defaulting to her having malicious intent (because bitches be evil, yo), when it's pretty clear she didn't give it much actual thought.

You're biased. You default to her being the innocent, hurt by a man, woman. We get it. You hate men, but you love them too, but, you don't trust them either. You take this woman at her word because the police arrested him, based on her word, because the police have been programed to, by default, automatically believe the woman, and to just let the courts figure it out.

 

[This_person]

I disagree. All I know is what was in the story, and it sounds to me like she did believe that she was in danger, and she did think that taking the guns was justified. She used to be married to him, and I presume they lived together at the time, so maybe she didn't really think of it as breaking and entering or illegal. I doubt she gave it a whole lot of real thought, considering what a flawed plan it was all the way around.

If he is in front of you with a gun, threatening you, he's a threat. If he's still in jail, he is NOT a threat.

She responded to the potential of a future threat, a thought that there might be danger some time in the future. She was not actually in danger. She thought she might be in danger in the future.

Unless they were not separated, it's pretty clear it was breaking and entering.

We'll have to agree to disagree that someone in jail is a threat to someone outside of jail. 2% of domestic violence includes use of a firearm, and he had the firearms longer than they have been going through the divorce.

As I've already said, she doesn't come across as terribly bright and I have no idea what she was thinking (neither do you all, btw). What seems reasonable is that she was in fear for her safety from this man who had beaten and threatened her in the past (that's what he was in jail for), so she broke into his home and stole his weapons, then turned them over to the police. I think in her mind she felt she was doing the right thing for her own safety. Otherwise she'd have just kept them or hidden them or something.

He was in jail for the accusation, not for the actual crime. One goes to jail before being indicted or certainly before convicted, which is where he was at - accused. Not surprisingly, he denies the crime. Whether he is guilty or not is not yet determined.

I agree she isn't very bright. I don't think she stole them from the point of view of personal financial gain, but she still had no right to take them.

What I DON'T think is that she went, "Oooh! I'm so cute and I have a vagina!! I'm going to break into douchie's house and steal his stuff, then go be cutsie to the cops, who will fall in love with me and my super cute vagina!"

While I don't think she was quite that obvious in her conniving, I think she was close to that. More along the lines of "I'm a woman who is claiming to be in danger, so they certainly will not arrest me for taking his stuff. I'll get him - I'll make this a huge pain in the ass for him, and maybe gain advantage in the assault charge because he isn't supposed to have these guns and it will look like he refused to turn them in - and I saved the day on that one!!"

I think she had no reason to think she'd be held responsible for her actions because she accused him of a crime, and she's a woman who claims feeling in danger, so she's entitled to do stuff.

We know women are about 40% of the perpetrators of domestic abuse, and about 93% of people in jail for perpetrating domestic abuse are male. What does that tell you about the differences that actually exist between men and women in domestic violence?

Did she steal anything else, or just the guns? Because if she's just a thief, why not take some money or valuables? Why take guns and then give them to the cops?

We agree she thought she had a reason. What we seem to disagree on is whether that reason is sufficient to steal from someone. What we seem to disagree on is whether or not she thought she was simply entitled to do it (which is why she took them to the cops without fear of consequence) vs. she is just stupid and unaware that breaking, entering, and taking goods from someone else's home is legal.