There are several lessons in the account of Jesus in the garden. Anyone care to comment on what they might be?
Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
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There are several lessons in the account of Jesus in the garden. Anyone care to comment on what they might be?
The lessons I see in the garden are these.
1) We are often inattentive even in someones time of need - the disciples slept while Jesus prayed.
2) We are to stay in communication with God by prayer and supplication following Jesus' example.
3) When we pray, we are to pray about what is really concerning us in a real conversation.
4) God always answers prayers; sometimes the answer is no.
5) That we are to yield to the decision of God as to His answer.
I think number 4 is where a lot of people lose faith. They pray for something to happen, a loved one to not die, to marry a particular person, for something that is very important to them, and their prayer is not answered with the answer they want. So,... God can't be real or God is bad or ....
Jesus prayed that He would not have to be crucified.
Then comes the lesson in number 5 from the last part of the same verse.
May God bless you with His best for you.
1) We are often inattentive even in someones time of need - the disciples slept while Jesus prayed.
2) We are to stay in communication with God by prayer and supplication following Jesus' example.
3) When we pray, we are to pray about what is really concerning us in a real conversation.
4) God always answers prayers; sometimes the answer is no.
5) That we are to yield to the decision of God as to His answer.
I think number 4 is where a lot of people lose faith. They pray for something to happen, a loved one to not die, to marry a particular person, for something that is very important to them, and their prayer is not answered with the answer they want. So,... God can't be real or God is bad or ....
Jesus prayed that He would not have to be crucified.
If God would say no to Himself as man, because there was something that had to be accomplished in His order of things, then it is only natural that He would say no to us when He knows better the eventual outcome.
Then comes the lesson in number 5 from the last part of the same verse.
Tell God you accept what He decides and accept His decision even if it is not what you want.
May God bless you with His best for you.
The difficulty *I* face with #4 is that, if your belief in God is a bit tenuous, a God who may or may not answer your prayers is virtually indistinguishable from a God who isn't there *at all*.2ndAmendment said:
There are repeated affirmations in Scripture that God answers prayers - John 14:12-14, John 16:23-24, Luke 11:1-13, Matt 6:5-8, James 5:13-20. And on and on. On the other hand, there are verses such as James 4:3 and James 1:6-8 that suggest conditions the other verses never bring up. Impure motives, lack of faith will cancel out a prayer. But parables such as that of the persistent widow (Luke 18) suggest that God will reward persistence. On the other hand - sometimes he doesn't.
What you're left with is a situation not unlike asking God to make the next flip of a coin turn up "heads" (God answering 'yes' or 'no' to prayer). If your prayers don't change the likelihood of the outcome, what is the point of asking in the first place? I realize this is a disturbing question to ask, but think about it. If God promises to answer prayers to those who believe in him, and his track record appears no better than that of utter randomness, it kind of obviates the whole point of prayer in the first place.
To someone who *believes*, whether or not it rains tomorrow is wholly dependent on the will of God - to someone who does not, it's a random event (that may or may not be calculable based on meteorological conditions). To a *believer* - God could just as easily hold up the waterworks FOREVER. To one who isn't - it's not particularly compelling if prayer doesn't alter the rain pattern of the past one hundred years.
It's not that a God who says "no" is necessarily faith-building. It's certainly reaffirming when God not only says "yes", he answers such as in the case of Elijah, *instantly*, on the spot, immediately at the end of a prayer and with the odds greatly stacked against him.
It's faith-eroding, for me, not when he says "no" but when his "yesses" aren't compelling.
Case in point : my wife and I would love to have a child, but the odds are greatly stacked against us. We can adopt - and probably will - or see specialists who will still tell us that with the best medical assistance, our chances are poor. If we go the adoption route - we'll be thrilled. It's a long arduous process. But it won't be faith-affirming; adoptions happen everyday. They're difficult, but not impossible. IF however, my wife were to become pregnant - THAT would be a clear act of God. Yes, statistically *possible*. But a miracle.
It doesn't help me much when God says yes to prayers that don't show his power - such as praying for a sunrise tomorrow. If God said NO to THAT prayer - it would make a difference.
Sam,
I would say continue to pray. I believe I am a product of prayer. My mother and father were told that they would probably not be able to have children. That was long before fertility doctors. They continued to pray. I was born on their third wedding anniversary. Coincidence? Maybe, but my parents thought it was a miracle especially considering the timing. They were never able to have another child; I was it.
I would say continue to pray. I believe I am a product of prayer. My mother and father were told that they would probably not be able to have children. That was long before fertility doctors. They continued to pray. I was born on their third wedding anniversary. Coincidence? Maybe, but my parents thought it was a miracle especially considering the timing. They were never able to have another child; I was it.
Railroad
Routinely Derailed
2A, I should have replied sooner. You took the words right out of my mouth, with the exception of a couple of additional thoughts:2ndAmendment said:
1. As humans our faith is weak - even those among us with the strongest of faith, fall short of the perfect Faith Jesus had. Perhaps a better word for this is "conviction" - because "conviction" implies a strength of belief that supports action.
2. Jesus was sweating it pretty hard there in the garden, knowing what was ahead of Him. He was about to suffer in ways we can't imagine - being killed as the ultimate sacrifice to pay for our sins was just part of it. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to bear the collective weight of all of our sins. Of course He prayed 3 times! I think I would have prayed a great many more times, trying the "persistence" route. Yet He did what was required of Him, though the thing was torture in the extreme. That's being faithful - or having conviction - beyond our ability to comprehend.
3. Note His use of the term "Son of Man" when speaking of His betrayal; if I focus on that, to me He still separated the corporal Jesus from the Spritual Jesus; that's an important distinction in my mind, because I think He felt that Judas couldn't betray the Spiritual Jesus - he didn't have that power or ability. Only God can betray His Son, yet He would never do that, because God is the ultimate in Truth and Justice - He does nothing falsely.
4. When the harsh world sets in against a Christian (by that I mean, when the Pink Cloud of a Sunday morning fades and things get tough), that's when we should even more steadfastly focus on the Lord, and pray more than at any other time. Reaching out for His hand and His guidance is the only way to do it.
Railroad said:
Good thoughts. We need to pray through.
D
dems4me
Guest
Railroad said:
Remarkably good post!!!
Bravo!!!! 
You mean when He says, "No."Homesick said:
But it takes times and a "view of the greater picture' to realize that "no" was better in the long run.I prayed that God would restore my first marriage. He, of course, would desire that there be no divorce, but He also does not force us to do anything; He respects our free will. It was my ex's free will decision to divorce. I was really hurting. But I got the love of my life in Sharon, because I was no longer under bondage because of my ex's decision.