Jobs back to America

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
You know, I keep thinking about this - we want to stop the outsourcing of jobs abroad. It diminishes our power and ability to pay our own people well, even if it comes at the cost of cheaper goods.

In the 90's when this was brought to my attention, the most oft quotes response was that "we are turning into a service economy". As nations advance from subsistence living - to agricultural - to industrial - to technology and beyond - they relinquish (I believe, at their peril) its ability to produce the previous items they depended on for trade and survival. Many industrialized nations in this world simply do not produce enough food at all to sustain their burgeoning populations. They just don't. They do make enough food and other items to trade, but it's not a balance I'd be comfortable with.

My argument in response to the idea that the United States has to relinquish the mantel of being at the forefront of manufacturing to be part of a new industry reliant on technology is - well, who IS it that leads the world in manufacturing? By their argument, it should be the up and coming industrial societies with massive sources of cheap labor but otherwise - still developing nations. Like say, India.

But who leads the world, other than China? Japan. Germany. South Korea. France, Italy, UK. And some of these are STILL that way, because they've done the thing that the United States MUST do, to continue to be competitive. Innovate manufacturing with robotics and technology.

Make no mistake - the U.S. is still up there. But China leads, and partly because we're enabling them.

To the reason I wrote this ---

We now have a slow market in producing jobs. We have WAY MORE JOBS than people want to take, and the idea of making new jobs seems slightly pointless. How useful is creating jobs and promising jobs, when there's way more jobs and people just don't take them? The argument is easily made that it's because of pandemic fears and disincentives to work. You get a job, you interview for jobs, you stand in line for jobs - because you really, REALLY need one. People don't. They've adjusted. They don't need to. The pandemic forced people to re-think their positions and situation. They did with less. They managed. Now they don't want to go back. Sadly, we just don't have enough GOOD JOBS for these folks to return to, and we don't have enough new skilled labor to usher in many of the new ones.

I don't know if we NEED new jobs. We need different jobs.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
You know, I keep thinking about this - we want to stop the outsourcing of jobs abroad. It diminishes our power and ability to pay our own people well, even if it comes at the cost of cheaper goods.

In the 90's when this was brought to my attention, the most oft quotes response was that "we are turning into a service economy". As nations advance from subsistence living - to agricultural - to industrial - to technology and beyond - they relinquish (I believe, at their peril) its ability to produce the previous items they depended on for trade and survival. Many industrialized nations in this world simply do not produce enough food at all to sustain their burgeoning populations. They just don't. They do make enough food and other items to trade, but it's not a balance I'd be comfortable with.

My argument in response to the idea that the United States has to relinquish the mantel of being at the forefront of manufacturing to be part of a new industry reliant on technology is - well, who IS it that leads the world in manufacturing? By their argument, it should be the up and coming industrial societies with massive sources of cheap labor but otherwise - still developing nations. Like say, India.

But who leads the world, other than China? Japan. Germany. South Korea. France, Italy, UK. And some of these are STILL that way, because they've done the thing that the United States MUST do, to continue to be competitive. Innovate manufacturing with robotics and technology.

Make no mistake - the U.S. is still up there. But China leads, and partly because we're enabling them.

To the reason I wrote this ---

We now have a slow market in producing jobs. We have WAY MORE JOBS than people want to take, and the idea of making new jobs seems slightly pointless. How useful is creating jobs and promising jobs, when there's way more jobs and people just don't take them? The argument is easily made that it's because of pandemic fears and disincentives to work. You get a job, you interview for jobs, you stand in line for jobs - because you really, REALLY need one. People don't. They've adjusted. They don't need to. The pandemic forced people to re-think their positions and situation. They did with less. They managed. Now they don't want to go back. Sadly, we just don't have enough GOOD JOBS for these folks to return to, and we don't have enough new skilled labor to usher in many of the new ones.

I don't know if we NEED new jobs. We need different jobs.

They adjusted to being paid to stay home, and they adjusted to that Gubmint check coming in

Make them come back to work and stop paying them if they don't work and they will adjust to earning a living instead of sucking on the Government tit.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

You know, I keep thinking about this - we want to stop the outsourcing of jobs abroad. It diminishes our power and ability to pay our own people well, even if it comes at the cost of cheaper goods.

In the 90's when this was brought to my attention, the most oft quotes response was that "we are turning into a service economy". As nations advance from subsistence living - to agricultural - to industrial - to technology and beyond - they relinquish (I believe, at their peril) its ability to produce the previous items they depended on for trade and survival. Many industrialized nations in this world simply do not produce enough food at all to sustain their burgeoning populations. They just don't. They do make enough food and other items to trade, but it's not a balance I'd be comfortable with.

My argument in response to the idea that the United States has to relinquish the mantel of being at the forefront of manufacturing to be part of a new industry reliant on technology is - well, who IS it that leads the world in manufacturing? By their argument, it should be the up and coming industrial societies with massive sources of cheap labor but otherwise - still developing nations. Like say, India.

But who leads the world, other than China? Japan. Germany. South Korea. France, Italy, UK. And some of these are STILL that way, because they've done the thing that the United States MUST do, to continue to be competitive. Innovate manufacturing with robotics and technology.

Make no mistake - the U.S. is still up there. But China leads, and partly because we're enabling them.

To the reason I wrote this ---

We now have a slow market in producing jobs. We have WAY MORE JOBS than people want to take, and the idea of making new jobs seems slightly pointless. How useful is creating jobs and promising jobs, when there's way more jobs and people just don't take them? The argument is easily made that it's because of pandemic fears and disincentives to work. You get a job, you interview for jobs, you stand in line for jobs - because you really, REALLY need one. People don't. They've adjusted. They don't need to. The pandemic forced people to re-think their positions and situation. They did with less. They managed. Now they don't want to go back. Sadly, we just don't have enough GOOD JOBS for these folks to return to, and we don't have enough new skilled labor to usher in many of the new ones.

I don't know if we NEED new jobs. We need different jobs.
Your judgement is sound. However, in our current debt based fiat monetary system, what you advocate is impossible. The reason all our major manufacturing was shipped overseas was to also export our, (expansion of the money supply), inflation. It is impossible to pay manufacturing workers a wage that keeps up with, or exceeds, inflation, whilst at the same time making those greedy bastards on Wall Street and corporate stockholders happy.

Yes, there are many "service" type jobs out there, a majority of which do not pay hourly wages indexed to inflation which would allow people to live a normal comfortable life, (note: not talking about a lavish life here). The thing with service jobs is that nearly everyone is capable of doing them, which, by the supply and demand formula, actually suppresses wages. Such as nearly everyone can dig a ditch, serve food or drinks, answer a phone, respond to an email, Learn, train, apply for, and get a CDL, etc., jobs which don't really require any special skill set. So what's the point of applying for a job in which one won't be compensated enough in which to live? This is a systemic result within a fiat currency system caused by inflation, (reckless expansion of the money supply).

One major problem is people think in terms of the movie The Matrix. Where all their thinking, and the application of their thoughts, are from within the Matrix. The Matrix in this case being a sound monetary system, where your thinking works. Outside of the Matrix, is our current unsound debt money fiat system, where your thinking does not compute and is not compatible when using thinking and thoughts used within the Matrix.

To first understand what and why and how things are happening here, economically, one must have a full understanding and comprehension of our debt based fiat monetary system and its interactions across the economic and political spectrum. Else, you are just spitting into the wind.
 
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