seekeroftruth
Well-Known Member
John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[b] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’[c]
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Footnotes:a. John 15:2 The Greek for he prunes also means he cleans.
b. John 15:20 John 13:16
c. John 15:25 Psalms 35:19; 69:4
I think the commentary from the easy English site.... is a pretty good explanation of the vine comparisons.
When we believe in Jesus, we are like the branches of a vine. The good work that we do on his behalf is like the fruit. God the Father is like the gardener who looks after the vine. The gardener wants the branches to produce much fruit. He does whatever is necessary for this to happen. Sometimes, he must cut off parts of the branch. Otherwise, if he leaves a branch to grow, it will grow too long. It may produce leaves instead of fruit. Or, the branch may grow in the wrong direction. And then that branch will shade the other branches. So other branches would become weak, because they were not receiving enough light.
Some people say that they believe in Jesus. But they do not pray. They do not study God’s words in the Bible. They do not obey Jesus’ commands. Instead, they do whatever they want to do. They say that they are Christians. But they do not achieve anything for God. Their lives do not show that they follow Jesus. They may even stop other Christians who are trying to do God’s work. Such people do not have a close relationship with Jesus. So they are useless. And therefore God will separate them from genuine Christians.
People rejected Jesus. They refused to believe in him. And they refused to believe his message about salvation. Moreover, they hated him. So they also hated everyone who followed him. People reject Jesus still. He never hurt anybody. In fact, he never did anything wrong. But still many people hate him, although they have no proper reason. Therefore, they will hate us, just because we follow Jesus. People did not obey Jesus’ words. So they did not listen to what the disciples said about Jesus. People still do not obey Jesus’ words. So such people are not likely to listen to us when we talk about Jesus.
Many people saw Jesus do miracles. Some of the Jewish leaders saw Jesus do miracles. Nobody denied that the miracles had happened. That was not possible because so many people had seen them. But the Jewish leaders did not believe that Jesus’ power came from God. So they hated him. That was why they were guilty of sin. The words from these Psalms were a prophecy that was happening. It is still happening. There are still people today who hate Jesus without a real reason.
Jesus warned his disciples that people would hate them. But he did not leave them without hope. He gave a wonderful promise to them. He promised that the Holy Spirit would come. The Father would send the Holy Spirit to them. The Holy Spirit would show them all that was true about Jesus. Then, the disciples could tell other people all about Jesus, too.
Before I get into how I personally understand this chapter.... I found that bibletrack.org had an interesting take on the whole discussion.Verse 6 is a little difficult. Jesus may be presenting one of three scenarios:
- Scenario #1: The unregenerate have no part in Christ. Thus, the fire there would be understood as Hell.
- Scenario #2: Those who were in the vine but ceased to bear fruit were overtaken by "men" and lost their public testimony. In the second case, the fire would not be understood as Hell. Since the word "abide" comes from the Greek word "meno" which means "to remain in the same state," this scenario is a strong contender.
- Scenario #3: Jesus is talking about Judas in this verse. After all, this is the very night Judas betrayed Jesus...and is doing so at the very time that Jesus is making this presentation. If this scenario is the correct one, then the usage of the Greek word "meno" speaks of Judas failing to "remain" with Jesus. Since Jesus identified Judas as diabolical early in his earthly ministry (John 6:70, see notes), we know that Judas was never spiritually abiding in Christ...only physically accompanying him. If Jesus is talking about Judas here, then the fire is a reference to Hell.
It is interesting to me that the Greek aorist tense is used in the verse up to the words "dried up," but the present tense is used for the balance of the verse. While the Greek aorist indicates a point in time (usually past tense) rather than continuing action (present tense), the tense change is curious. That would seem to lend credibility to scenario #3 as listed above. Maybe Jesus is addressing the Judas-betrayal issue.
I'm a Baptist. Baptists, IMHO, have a ton of fakes among the Christians. Baptists have become to be known as hateful! I am so embarrassed. IMHO.... there is no better way to explain my embarrassment then the topic discussed in chapter 15. According to the preachers.... being gay is an abomination and having an abortion.... well that can be explained.... but we'll keep that quiet. Feeding the poor, according to some good Baptists, is not a good thing... after all, those fine upstanding Baptists claim..... if you give a man a fish.... he'll go hungry tomorrow. Self righteous money grubbers.... the ones that will dig through a thick shag carpet because they dropped a dime.... have taken over the church. I am so embarrassed.Jesus chose 13 men to be at the table on that last night before He was arrested. One of them [the money grubber, Judas] was chosen to betray. That was why Jesus had him there. Jesus needed someone to turn Him over to the guard. Centuries later.... people wonder why Jesus would choose such a man.... knowing Jesus could read minds.... why would He choose a money grubbing double crosser to be one of the disciples. It's simple... according to the commentary..... Judas was chosen to betray Jesus.
There were thousand and thousand and thousands of people who followed Jesus all around. They were actually known as disciples... followers..... and of course.... even though they are all followers.... not all of them [well actually only a few by percentage] were actually Christians. A lot of people were there for the show... the showing off.... the being seen..... some were there for the networking. They all got a thrill when Jesus healed a blind man or had a paraplegic get up and walk. They were all really excited when Jesus started bringing the sick back from death.... as He did for the little girl and the servant of the Roman guard. I really think... that dead stuff started to make the fake followers a little squeamish. I'm pretty sure the raising of Lazarus was really hard to fathom.
The leaders of the church back then.... saw an opening and they took it. They said the reason Jesus could raise people from the dead was that Jesus was doing Satan's work. Oh what an impressive idea! The people were more afraid of the devil making them do something evil... than they were about seeing through a lie told by the leaders of the church. After all... the church had been there forever..... and this Guy.... well He was a carpenter.... a carpenter raising people from the dead.... well that's like a Stephen King novel.....
Lying about Jesus was a really good way to get crowd control. I wonder.... how many people have stayed away from the Christian church because the preachers claim that homosexuality is an abomination that will never be forgiven. I wonder.... how many preachers have said to a woman who has had an abortion..... "it's ok, you're a good Christian.... God will understand". How many eternal lives have been destroyed by money grubbing preachers..... who wanted to tap the hatred of the church and drive those wallets out of the pockets of those who came there with the best of intentions.
Jesus said He's the vine..... I know there are branches called suckers that will grow from a vine and suck the life right out of it. Those suckers will take all the good nutrients the plant needs to grow.... while producing only fancy leaves.... A vine full of suckers is just what we need for the shade of a pergola but if we want fruit... the suckers have got to go.
But... then again.... what do I know... I'm just an old one eyed woman with an online Bible and some online commentary. Who am I to say that the preachers have become addicted to the free housing and paychecks? Who am I to say that the preachers are teaching hate so the hateful people with the deep pockets will drop more dimes in the shag carpeting? Who am I to say that the preachers are producing more fake preachers while hiding the true message of love and compassion.
It's all over my head....
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