Judge bans moment of silence

[This_person]

I'm sorry i was under the impression that school was in place to teach our children, not guide the religous fervent of their souls

I missed it in the original posting, where again was the guidance provided? Or, was it individual silent thought that was being promoted?

Who's against individual private, silent thought?

 

[vraiblonde]

if the moment of silence wasnt for prayer, why are the Faithers so upset about it being removed ¿

I'm not a "Faither", sweetiepie.

But I will suggest anyone with half a brain would be at least concerned about some judge deciding that a moment of silence constitutes prayer, which constitutes a Constitutional violation. When one person with an axe to grind can set school policy, that should make us all very fearful.

 

[vraiblonde]

Who's against individual private, silent thought?

Hormonal atheists who are terrified of anything that might even remotely smack of religion, even if it's just in their crazy imagination.

 

[Pete]

I don't care about this one way or the other, but I see no reason to have prayer, a moment of silence, or the pledge at school. Get rid of all the fluff and educate our children. What exactly is the purpose of any of this?

I agree totally. I think it is quite silly to have a dedicated moment to do what anyone can do at any moment. You can pray silently at any time without even drawing notice to it. The opportunities to pray silently are boundless so to have a dedicated moment seems kind of silly to me.

Teacher: Pop quiz time, please clear your desks!

Student: (closes eyes for 10 seconds) God please help me do well...amen.

:shrug:

To me it comes to being tolerant and polite. I have gone to lunch with someone I didn't know very well before, dropped the tray on the table and launched into a conversation and noticed they were praying silently, I just stop talking until they finish. Also at public functions, ceremonies and so on it is not uncommon for them to have a prayer or invocation. I just stand quietly and look at the floor until it is done. I don't feel out of place, embarrassed, guilty, uneasy or moved to protest. I just be respectful and let those who want to pray their moment to.

I cannot, in light of all the pure evil and nastiness in this world, understand why some one would get so absolutely bent over a moment of silence, or an invocation that they would feel compelled to biatch about it out loud let alone file a law suit. If you are atheist use that second to sing Gwen Stefani to yourself, think about porn, or stare at some funny looking person in the crowd. No one can make me pray. As a matter of fact the moment of "silence" seems to have been the compromise that allows you to do your own thing without anyone knowing what was bouncing around your melon.

 

[Pete]

Hormonal atheists who are terrified of anything that might even remotely smack of religion, even if it's just in their crazy imagination.

Why? What is it exactly about religion that moves people to kirk out at the thought of it going on in their close proximity? Is it guilt? Is it uncomfortableness? I mean it is hard to equate a moment of silence to something evil. If they were sacrificing goats, or virgins, or virgins goats in the lunch room before class I can see but a moment of silence?

 

[vraiblonde]

Why? What is it exactly about religion that moves people to kirk out at the thought of it going on in their close proximity? Is it guilt? Is it uncomfortableness? I mean it is hard to equate a moment of silence to something evil. If they were sacrificing goats, or virgins, or virgins goats in the lunch room before class I can see but a moment of silence?

I have no idea and don't understand it.

I've asked that same question and never got a response. So I won't hold my breath that you'll get one.

 

[This_person]

He/she asked when is someone allowed to pray in school.

So, no guidance was provided. You do get that part, right?

why does there have to be time set aside to accomplish that? You want to pray? then do it on your own time.

Time was set aside for silent thought, and included in the list of what that silent time could be used for was prayer. Also included was to gather your thoughts for the day (classes, upcoming homework, etc.). So, time was not specifically set aside to accomplish prayer, but thought. That thought could include prayer.

What's wrong with an individual thinking? About ANYTHING they choose to think about? And, giving a quiet time in the day to help facilitate that thinking?

 

[This_person]

Why? What is it exactly about religion that moves people to kirk out at the thought of it going on in their close proximity? Is it guilt? Is it uncomfortableness? I mean it is hard to equate a moment of silence to something evil. If they were sacrificing goats, or virgins, or virgins goats in the lunch room before class I can see but a moment of silence?

You answered in your previous post - respect (or, the absence thereof, in this case).

 

[Pete]

So, no guidance was provided. You do get that part, right?Time was set aside for silent thought, and included in the list of what that silent time could be used for was prayer. Also included was to gather your thoughts for the day (classes, upcoming homework, etc.). So, time was not specifically set aside to accomplish prayer, but thought. That thought could include prayer.

What's wrong with an individual thinking? About ANYTHING they choose to think about? And, giving a quiet time in the day to help facilitate that thinking?

That is a bit disingenuous, it is most certainly time allocated to allow for prayer. :shrug: My question is "So?"

 

[This_person]

That is a bit disingenuous, it is most certainly time allocated to allow for prayer. :shrug: My question is "So?"

I was going to reference the link, but it's gone now.

The school district labeled it a time of silence for personal items, like prayer, upcoming work, previous work done, etc....

Although, I agree with the question. Even if it were for prayer, so what?

 

[Pete]

I was going to reference the link, but it's gone now.

The school district labeled it a time of silence for personal items, like prayer, upcoming work, previous work done, etc....

Although, I agree with the question. Even if it were for prayer, so what?

That is just a coy way of denying it is what it is because the anti religious have succeded in making prayer something sinister.

 

[bcp]

on there own time.

exactly when is that magical own time while in school?

 

[Pete]

your mixing two different concepts. I was not commenting on the Judge ruling on the consitutionality of the moment of silence, i dont agree with the pratice.

BCP asked when prayers is allowed in school. my response is ON THEIR OWN TIME. At no time and in no ruling has it been outlawed for a student to pray or rethink when they needed the guidance (whatever). You and others are equating this 10 minute of Silence/Prayer as taking away a students want to pray to pass a test. thats false (read below)

I have no problem with INDIVIDUAL thinking. But that isnt what is being discussed.
You want to pray, take a moment of time to rethink or whatever, then do it on your time, your argument is mixing someone taking their own time to do something with a structured practice.

If there is a moment of prayer... er silence at the beginning of the day, do students still say a prayer during the final exam in their 5th period class?

Yes - then the moment of prayer/silence is uneccesary because the students can still offer their prayers when they need it, not just in the beginning of the day.

thats what my argument is, the fact that they have this 10 minutes of prayer/silence in the beginning of the day. There isnt a need for it, when the student needs to pray/rethink they do it when they need it ON THEIR OWN TIME.

There isn't a need for a bunch of crap that goes on anymore, so why does it bother you so much if they do? It is not like it is an organized, outloud prayer. It is not even dictated it be Christian. It is a moment of nothingness, nada, zilch, zippo. It has no value or detriment to the group at all. So why get lathered up over quite litterally nothing?

 

[Toxick]

That is a bit disingenuous, it is most certainly time allocated to allow for prayer. :shrug: My question is "So?"

As a religious person - one who gets almost no silence at home between chasing around 3 screaming booger-pickers, my homework, their homework, and preparing for the next day - I can honestly say that I would not pray during a 'moment of silence'.

I would simply enjoy the few minutes of peace and ####ing quiet.

 

[bcp]

There isn't a need for a bunch of crap that goes on anymore, so why does it bother you so much if they do? It is not like it is an organized, outloud prayer. It is not even dictated it be Christian. It is a moment of nothingness, nada, zilch, zippo. It has no value or detriment to the group at all. So why get lathered up over quite litterally nothing?

because deep down, people that argue to keep religion out of school think that any exposure to religion will cause children to become priests or something.

however, when the school endorses homosexuality, there is no chance that those same children could be influenced.

strange isnt it?

 

[Pete]

Project much? Who's lathered up about it? i dont think religion is an aspect that needs to be fostered by the school administration, the school is there to teach my child.

but i also dont care what the individual students religious practices are. if the student wants to pray to pass a science test then good for them.

If it has no value, as you've stated above and in previous post, then it has no value as a practice that needs to be kept. take that ten minutes and use it to teach instead. that is what the school is for.

Project? Don't start that misdirection bullchit on me.

The school is not teaching your child religion except as it pertains to history maybe. Fostering? Allowing them to have a few moments of silence to do whatever mental Olympics they want to is fostering? Come on Maybe the kid is doing the 6 times tables in his head and the kid next to him is thinking about how Mary Sue's ass has gotten so damn fine. How are either one of those fostering religion? It is just a moment remember, with no strings.

It is an accommodation for opportunity to pray if they want to. Since the majority of the population is not atheist then it seems reasonable to me.

Your argument that that moment should be used as instructional time is so outlandishly stupid it is not worthy of comment but I will.

It seems you have 2 concerns. The first being lost instructional time IF the moment is 1 full minute long, and I highly doubt it would be more, in 180 days of instruction that equates to 3 freaking hours of instructional time lost to this evil boogeyman "moment of silence". You think all this kirking and indignation is worthy of 3 effing hours a year? After all you claim one of your concerns is the lost instructional time. You are coming uncorked and writing paragraphs and stomping your foot over 3 effing hours a YEAR! Maybe they should eliminate recess, field trips, or study hall since they are not technically under instruction times. Recess, the school is there to teach my child not let them run around in the tire chips giggling! Play on your own time! Lunch, eat at your desk, you can study while you eat that bologna sandwich! Sitting around eating and talking is wasted time!

Your next concern is that the school district is "fostering" education. How exactly does allowing a moment each morning in which the ONLY direction or requirement is to be silent foster anything? There is no direction or rules other than "be silent".


Now if we are finally past the bullchit dodging and spinning please tell me exactly why, E X A C T L Y why, the thought that a kid is given a "moment" in which they MAY or MAY NOT pray chaps your ass so much?

 

[vraiblonde]

So why get lathered up over quite litterally nothing?

Leftists don't like it when people think - they might actually get an idea in their heads that doesn't follow the leftwing agenda, and then where would we be?

The less time spent thinking, the more time for some lunatic teacher to fill young heads of mush with ideology.

 

[Toxick]

because deep down, people that argue to keep religion out of school think that any exposure to religion will cause children to become priests or something.

It's true. I used to be an atheist.... then a friend of mine talked me into going to church one time and got christian all over me. I haven't been able to wash it off or nothing.

however, when the school endorses homosexuality, there is no chance that those same children could be influenced.

That's a lie.... I used to be straight - then a friend of mine talked me into going into a gay bar one time, and I got 'man-juice' all over me. I haven't been able to wash it off or nothing.

 

[Pete]

You have posted numerous times in this thread that the 10 minutes is a waste. I agree

I say why waste the ten minutes use them effectively.

But you want to continue focusing on whether my ass is chapped or not have at it.

Answer the damn question and quit dodging!

 

[Cowgirl]

Leftists don't like it when people think - they might actually get an idea in their heads that doesn't follow the leftwing agenda, and then where would we be?

You know, this is really quite funny. The same thing could be said about the rightists....for example: just follow the President and do what he says because he's the President and that's what we're supposed to do. People arguing can use the same facts and/or thoughts and be on either side of the argument.


Anyhoo, I'm an athiest, and I don't have any problem whatsoever with the moment of silence! In fact, when I'm at a gathering and they have a prayer, I bow my head with everyone else (and giggle to myself)!

I don't see how a moment of silence would offend anyone. :shrug: