Kerry and Form 180...

[Larry Gude]

RE-POST:

...I keep reading about a form 180 that the the people who say Kerry sucks want him to sign which, they say, will make all his military records, including medical, available to the public AND will absolutely clear up whether or not Kerry has, uh, well, polished his resume a bit.

So, all Kerry has to do is say OK, sign the form, and the issue is pretty much settled?

Can I get some attention here???

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Larry Gude
RE-POST:

...I keep reading about a form 180 that the the people who say Kerry sucks want him to sign which, they say, will make all his military records, including medical, available to the public AND will absolutely clear up whether or not Kerry has, uh, well, polished his resume a bit.

So, all Kerry has to do is say OK, sign the form, and the issue is pretty much settled?

Can I get some attention here???

It will never happen. He is already in a dead heat with Bush and he has pollsters back slapping him and calling him Mr. President already. He will make no move to counter the critisism except to whine and cry about how mean the GOP and their goon squad is.

 

[Larry Gude]

That is not the question...

...whether it will happen or not.

I wanna know if that form will do the trick.

If so, he can't stave it off forever and that is why, I suspect, there is this intense desire to shut it down now before the fact that he, Kerry, can dispel the criticism by signing a release becomes common knowledge.


Thanks though.

 

[Ken King]

Larry the SF180 is a release form that an individual (or if deceased his survivors) must complete upon request of military records. A person (not the service member) doing a FOIA request for information on a military member will be given only the basics if a signed SF180 does not accompany the written FOIA request.

 

[vraiblonde]

This is from Larry (I am merely the secretary):

So, Ken, are you saying that if he fills out the 180 it should totally clear up the issue of the Purple Hearts?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
This is from Larry (I am merely the secretary):

So, Ken, are you saying that if he fills out the 180 it should totally clear up the issue of the Purple Hearts?

Nope, I am not saying that at all. If in association with a FOIA request he provides a signed SF180 agreeing to release the records requested via the FOIA request those records will be released. Now if the person doing the requesting doesn't know to ask for complete medical records then the one Purple Heart awarded (where there has been no accompanying documentation) might still be in dispute.

Kerry, on his own, can request full copies of his records and make them available to the public, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that happening.

 

[SurfaceTension]

A retired military guy on Britt Hume's show last night said that much of the history (from a broader perspective) could be pieced together through Naval archives....He said something to the effect that command and control ships should have logs of all ships' actions, when they took fire, engaged enemy, etc. He indicated that if a journalist got off the press-release gravytrain & did some research at the Navy Yard, we would have a better indication of what claims are legit.

 

[jlabsher]

Guess what? If the FOIA came back and supported everything Kerry & his camp have been saying and even made him a hero you all still wouldn't be satisfied!

The real issue galling you all and the swifties is that he went to war and then came back and was against it. That is all. If anyone isn't draped in the flag and totally supportive of ANY armed action by the government they are considered a traitor, commie, left-leaning pinko queer.

Did I get everything?

It is the sixties all over again, the divisiveness is extreme.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Guess what? If the FOIA came back and supported everything Kerry & his camp have been saying and even made him a hero you all still wouldn't be satisfied!

The real issue galling you all and the swifties is that he went to war and then came back and was against it. That is all. If anyone isn't draped in the flag and totally supportive of ANY armed action by the government they are considered a traitor, commie, left-leaning pinko queer.

Did I get everything?

It is the sixties all over again, the divisiveness is extreme.

You didn’t get squat. Matter of fact, you missed it by a country mile.

It isn’t that Kerry was against the war at least for me and I suspect others share that thought. It isn’t even about being awarded the medals, though I would like to see proof of Purple Heart number 1, like the standard medical card that accompanies all combat wounds. It is about how he trashed the men when he came home. All they were doing was their job and the same things he was ordered to do and did. And then claiming he was a big hero on top of it. That is what galls me. Another thing about him that chaps my ass is how he claimed to throw the same medals away that he now is flying high like some banner of greatness.

You can be for or against the armed action all you want, but how dare anyone, claiming his own great service to our nation that freely admitted to committing what he calls crimes, deride other men for doing the same damn things he did. And now he wants to be in charge of these same type of men and control their lives. Don’t think so.

 

[Bruzilla]

I have only one problem with Kerry IRT his protests, and that would be his throwing of his own ribbons and the medals of other vets to protest the war. If he had thrown his medals instead of easily replaceable ribbons, I would have more respect for his actions and dedication. Also, I would note that the same awards he was so ashamed of before are now the ones he's bragging about now.

In my ten years of active duty, and 15+ years as a defense contractor, I've know quite a few service members who put themselves in for awards they did not earn or deserve. all you need are the right forms and some one to back you up (that someone usually being the recipient of an award as payback later on.) This type of conduct isn't limited to Kerry, and if he did do it he's not the kind of guy you want being President.

Personally, I would love to see Kerry and Bush debate their war records. One guy had four questionable months in Vietnam. The other defeated the Taliban and defeated one of the largest military forces in the world. I know who I would vote for.

 

[jlabsher]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
I have only one problem with Kerry IRT his protests, and that would be his throwing of his own ribbons and the medals of other vets to protest the war. If he had thrown his medals instead of easily replaceable ribbons, I would have more respect for his actions and dedication. Also, I would note that the same awards he was so ashamed of before are now the ones he's bragging about now.

In my ten years of active duty, and 15+ years as a defense contractor, I've know quite a few service members who put themselves in for awards they did not earn or deserve. all you need are the right forms and some one to back you up (that someone usually being the recipient of an award as payback later on.) This type of conduct isn't limited to Kerry, and if he did do it he's not the kind of guy you want being President.

Personally, I would love to see Kerry and Bush debate their war records. One guy had four questionable months in Vietnam. The other defeated the Taliban and defeated one of the largest military forces in the world. I know who I would vote for.

Defeated the Taliban and one of the largest military forces in the world? Obviously you don't watch the news, we still are at terror alert, try going to DC sometime or flying or even mention Allah at an airport and see what the reaction is. Of course lets not forget the fact that your guy tried to ballyhoo his "military" service until the hue and cry from the left became too much. Let's not forget the flyin to the "mission accomplished" speech. Face it, they both had shams of military service and are trying to play on it but it is biting them both in the butt.

My take is that the main point the swifties seem to have is that he came back against the war and outed some of the atrocities that we now know did occur in Vietnam. Yes it was over the top as Kerry says, but at that time in history everything was over the top and fiery rhetoric was the only thing that got things noticed.

Would you have had the guy that outed the "maltreatment" of Iraqi prisoners keep his mouth shut? He was called a traitor and liar too, but he exposed the fact that some dirty things were going on and he didn't like it.

Like it or not there are still a lot of people in this country who dislike & distrust the military-industrial complex that this administration represents, they see it as secretive, wasteful and too big. TWO BILLION dollars a day is seen as too much to fight a bunch of terrorists, especially when we can't stop them.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Would you have had the guy that outed the "maltreatment" of Iraqi prisoners keep his mouth shut? He was called a traitor and liar too, but he exposed the fact that some dirty things were going on and he didn't like it.

I, personally, would have had him executed for treason. These crazies are shooting at MY KID, and you think I give a crap if some girl puts a leash on them and makes them wear women's panties???

 

[jlabsher]

Sorry, your kid made the choice to go, no draft yet. If he is in danger I'm sure he is a big boy and can handle it, and outing a few bad reservists won't make one whit of difference in the danger he faces.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Sorry, your kid made the choice to go, no draft yet.

Has nothing to do with it. You're asking me to feel sorry for the people who would cut his head off and videotape it, if they got their hands on him. So sorry, not gonna happen.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
outing a few bad reservists won't make one whit of difference in the danger he faces.

Guess again. It will make a difference in the danger WE ALL face. Now the terrorist realize that there is a segment of America that will support them and cheer them on while they kill our citizens. AND this segment will cry enormous tears when a terrorist is actually punished for his crimes.

"Spanish election" ringing a bell with you?

 

[Larry Gude]

jlab...

...you ought to work for Kerry because you are TERRIFIED that what these guys claim is TRUE and you're trying anything to deal with that when the truth comes out.

And it will.

If the FOIA came back and supported everything Kerry & his camp have been saying and even made him a hero you all still wouldn't be satisfied!

First off, it's clear as a bell Kerry is dirty on this, so if it makes you feel better, here, freebee. I will give $100 to the Kerry/Edwards campaign and fax you a photo copy of the cancelled check if Kerry signs the 180 in the next week.

Second, NOBODY cared ONE piss about Kerry's record. Most serious people said the same thing about both Kerry and Bush; what they did 35 years ago, especially in light of 8 years of Clinton DOESN'T matter.

John Kerry chose to make it THE ONLY thing that matters. He gives virtually NO time to his record that should be front and center; the last 20 years as a US Senator.

You answer for yourself why.

I am oppossed to John Kerry as President on those grounds. He is not my enemy, he is my opponent. People who served with him, a bunch of people, claim he is unfit for command and your side does not want to address it. At all.

Like I said, Kerry jumped into the quicksand, calculating, that he would not be called on it. It's not W's responsibility to get him out.

It's his. If he is fit to lead us all, he will face us all and sign the 180.

 

[Larry Gude]

And another thing...

Sorry, your kid made the choice to go, no draft yet.

Some wounded Nam vets who became POW's say that John Kerry's words DID matter and they were...drafted.

See the new ad.

 

[grandpa]

Vietnam

After John Kerry's senate speach in 71, He became the same as (Hanoi Jane Fonda) in my eyes. He really hurt those of us that served in the SEA conflict. (They told us we were not officially at war.) It was that one of our own had defected to the enemies side. During my tour of duty in Southeast Asia, I didn't see any of the things that Mr. Kerry said that were happening every day, although I am sure it happened sometime/ somewhere. We tend to be civilized folks that don't just chop off heads and murder babies.-----I never did!----- I didn't even burn villages or destroy rice crops. I guess that means, that the folks that I worked with were not like all the other troops.
I don't like to get started on the (conflict) that had such an effect on my life. I tend to get angry at some folks that think that any war is just another game. The Viet Nam thing is just as fresh in my mind as it was 35 years ago.
I am proud of my medals from the (conflict) I was there.

 

[Larry Gude]

grandpa...

...I guess we'll just add you to my personal list of Viet Nam vets I've chatted with who were not in the same war as Oliver Stone makes movies about and John Kerry served in.

It is simply amazing to me, knowing all that is very public about John Kerry, his service, his protesting and his testimony that the best choice his campaign could make was...to run on that? 'Jenjis' Khan?' et al?

This, after the public just got done accepting 8 years of a man, who by his own words, 'loathes the military' and clearly dodged the draft.

Viet Nam 'The issue' was over. Fini. And they bring back, front and center?

#1. That's how difficult they see discussing his 20 years in the Senate.

#2. That's how dumb this guy and his crew are.

Thanks for serving!