Kerry on Abortion

[ylexot]

Since his stance wasn't clear before, he tried to clarify it:
"I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception. But I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist ... who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."

I've got a problem with those statements. He either believes that life begins at conception (as he says), or he doesn't. If he actually believes it, then he is supporting murder. When life begins is not a religious matter, it's a human matter.

 

[vraiblonde]

That's the thing that irritates me about these abortion fence-straddlers. You either believe it's life at conception or you don't. If not, then supporting abortion is a no-brainer. But if you do, then it's murder whether you're a Christian, a Jew or an athiest.

For once I'd like to see the pro-abortion folks make a practical case and not hide behind words like "choice".

 

[Spoiled]

hes simply saying he doesnt support it, but its not his place to force his religious beliefs on others... it makes perfect sense, "I oppose the war but since i was drafted i will fight it"... "I dont think gay marraige is right because of my religion but im not going to tell other religions what is and isnt right, it doesnt hurt others"

edit: hes isnt supporting murder either, he can speak out against it, he just knows its a religious and moral thing, so its up for others to decide... If you dont think its murder then you can go ahead and do it... In the end, you have to answer to God.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Spoiled
hes simply saying he doesnt support it, but its not his place to force his religious beliefs on others...

No, what he's doing is trying to play both sides and not alienate the anti-abortion crowd. I'm pro-abortion but I admire Bush for taking a stand and not waffling for votes.

 

[SmallTown]

I think Kerry is doing the right thing about not letting his personal religous beliefs get in the way of him being a politician. Or any personal beliefs for that matter. Kind of like the republicans and the whole gay marriage issue

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
I think Kerry is doing the right thing about not letting his personal religous beliefs get in the way of him being a politician.

That's actually a good point. The President is a representative. There are times when he needs to lead and times when he needs to reflect the will of the people. However, since the majority of the population supports at least some restrictions on abortion, Bush is a lot closer to both leadership AND representation than Kerry is.

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

 

[rraley]

I don't see this as trying to straddle the line. Kerry knows that he won't get a single voter who is pro-life and only votes on that issue. He is saying what his thought process is on the very distinct issues of abortion and abortion rights. What he stated is the same position of many devout Roman Catholics including ones in my family.

 

[hamsterfang]

I agree that it was a good idea to ban partial birth abortions. Early term abortions are still legal, however, so it seems as if both sides were treated fairly. However, the argument that Bush is a better leader and representative than Kerry just because he banned partial birth abortions is invalid. Just like with the abortion issue, half of Americans seem to support homosexual marriage, or more specifically homosexual civil unions. Bush still wants to propose a constitutional amendment to ban them, which seems to me to be a bit radical. This doesn't represent both sides of the issue.

Vrailblonde, you said earlier you admire Bush for not waffling like Kerry on the abortion issue. Kerry never had a real stance on abortion, but it was always assumed he was pro-choice because of his party affiliation. Kerry has pretty much said, "I would never encourage abortion, but I feel that it should remain legal because I feel it is mainly a religious argument and I refuse to enforce my religion on others". Whether you disagree or not with that statement is up to you, but that's not waffling.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Instead of promoting or vilifying abortions Ive often wondered why both sides dont work to avoid abortions when possible.

Nobody can argue that an abortion is a good thing, even if you look at what it does to the mothers body. (had a friend almost die from one).

Instead they want to play politics with the issue.

I don't see what the big deal is about "needing" legal abortion, I really dont think its any more inconvient than me not being able to get R-12 cans for my 30 year old cars air conditioner like I use to be able to.

An $8 pack of rubbers will do the work of 12 abortions.

 

[vraiblonde]

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051

The fact remains that Kerry voted NAY to a bill banning partial-birth abortion. That says all I need to know about his stand on abortion.

Early abortions don't disturb me but partial-birth abortions are horrific and whoever invented them must have been some Auschwitz experimenter and should have been given the death penalty without hesitation.

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051

The fact remains that Kerry voted NAY to a bill banning partial-birth abortion. That says all I need to know about his stand on abortion.

Early abortions don't disturb me but partial-birth abortions are horrific and whoever invented them must have been some Auschwitz experimenter and should have been given the death penalty without hesitation.

Many Democrats, including Steny Hoyer, voted against that ban because of its uncertain language on what exactly made a partial birth abortion that made its constitutionality highly suspect. I believe that the law is based on Nebraska's former partial birth abortion ban, which was overturned by the Supreme Court in 1999. A few days after the ban took effect, a lawsuit was filed against it, and its enaction has been delayed by the courts. This ban will never last as long as the courts have their way. Why cannot Congress just make a law that is not politically motivated? The ban's vote was brought up just to make Democrats uncomfortable - there was no other reason. If Congress wants to ban this terrible form of abortion, they should draw up a bill that would pass constituitonal muster and approve it.

 

[vraiblonde]

I beg your pardon. Kerry didn't vote when it went through last time. Here are his NAY votes:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=104&session=1&vote=00596

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=105&session=1&vote=00071

 

[Ken King]

Will someone help me out with this? If Kerry believes that life begins at conception, but is unwilling to deny the right to any woman to obtain an abortion, why would he vote against the partial-birth abortion ban? You would think that he would agree, without violating or considering his religous beliefs, that unless there were circumstances that could impact the life of the mother then he would protect that life he acknowledges exists from this heinous act. Traditional abortions are still allowed under this law, the woman is protected from prosecution under it if she has one, and they are still fully legal for a woman whose life is in danger after entering the third trimester.

The heinous nature of the procedure should demand his support to prevent this from happening to viable fetuses. It certainly shouldn’t be thought to be a religious belief to want to stop what is being done; it is solely a moral issue (and he whines about female panties on an Iraqi’s head). Yet he voted against it during the 104th, 105th, and 106th sessions of the Congress (106th - was incorporated in the appropriation’s bill for that session and not a stand alone bill), by the way each of these passed but were vetoed and failed under reconsideration. If he had been available in 2003 when it passed the 108th you can bet he would have voted against it once again.

He wants to be our President and believes that life begins at conception, yet won’t support his gut feeling as to what protections these citizens require, what will he rule out for some of us next?

 

[ylexot]

Originally posted by Spoiled
hes simply saying he doesnt support it, but its not his place to force his religious beliefs on others

How is the following statement in any way religious?
"I believe life does begin at conception."

Does Kerry also believe that the war in Iraq is wrong just because the Pope said so? If that's the case, he shouldn't be pushing his religious beliefs on others.

 

[rraley]

Originally posted by ylexot
Does Kerry also believe that the war in Iraq is wrong just because the Pope said so? If that's the case, he shouldn't be pushing his religious beliefs on others.

Kerry voted to authorize the war in Iraq. He fully supported the removal of Saddam Hussein and does not believe that doing so was a mistake.

 

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by ylexot
How is the following statement in any way religious?
"I believe life does begin at conception."
.

But I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist ...

He was raised catholic thus his beliefs probably coincide with the churches on some issues, including moral ones...

 

[ylexot]

Originally posted by Spoiled
He was raised catholic thus his beliefs probably coincide with the churches on some issues, including moral ones...

If a belief coincides with the church's belief, that does not make it a religious belief.

 

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by ylexot
If a belief coincides with the church's belief, that does not make it a religious belief.

You right wingers said differently when it came to JFK....


BTW what is the point you are trying to make?

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by Spoiled
You right wingers said differently when it came to JFK....


BTW what is the point you are trying to make?

It sounds to me like he's saying that murder is against church teaching, and it is also against secular belief.


Of course the church is against murder even when it's painted with a pretty name like "choice".

 

[SamSpade]

I'd like to weigh in with some food for thought.

Lincoln was against slavery. Lifetime anti-slavery opponent, and his comments against the evil of slavery are legion. But he also did not believe the office of President should be the means to enforce that belief, even though every fiber of his being cried out that it was wrong. He wasn't being politically correct - he believed as many did at that time, that the only way to abolish slavery for good was to change public opinion on the matter. If you create a law that the public doesn't agree with, you've won no converts. This was the approach taken at the Constitutional convention, that it could not be legislated against without alienating the significant portion who were not going to go along. There WERE groups then whose attitude was "screw 'em. no slaves allowed in the new nation". I think the wiser course of action was to sidestep such a polarizing issue - if half the country was in support of such a horrible institution, the best course of action would be to change their minds.

He of course would have to face the fact that if he did NOT abolish slavery outright, it would spread to every remaining state to be added.

Most of the recent Presidents have claimed to be morally opposed to abortion, but none have campaigned against it, or campaigned that they would overturn it - which is why I think as a political issue, it is a very stupid thing to hinge a decision on.