kicking chains

persimmoncf

Persimmon Creek Farm
Has anyone had any luck in using a kicking chain? I have a mare that stands at fenceline and kicks ALOT. No other horses in site and she still gets a charge out of nailing the fence and posts. She is currently lame from her pasttime and I am concerned with further injuries to come if her behavior is not curved.

Can you purchase or make from a hobble strap? What is the specs (ei. length of chain, wieght or gauge of chain)?
 
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Kain99

Guest
Would an electric doggy fence work for a horse? Not trying to be stupid, It's an idea. Maybe you could amp up the charge or something. :huggy:
 

K_Jo

Pea Brain
PREMO Member
Kain99 said:
Would an electric doggy fence work for a horse? Not trying to be stupid, It's an idea. Maybe you could amp up the charge or something. :huggy:
Any idea how to get the shock collar to stay on my vole? He's real wiggley and his head is smaller than his neck.
 
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Kain99

Guest
K_Jo said:
Any idea how to get the shock collar to stay on my vole? He's real wiggley and his head is smaller than his neck.
Your pole??? Nope, they all wiggle like that! Just wait till it shrinks. :killingme
 

mingiz

Horse Poor
They work on some, and also can cause other problems to arise. I saw this article thought it might interest you. Even though it relates more to stall kicking, Good Luck! :yay:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Few vices can be as destructive to your horse, your facilities, and your peace of mind as stall kicking. Stall banging, a related habit, is the hitting the stall walls with the front hoof and knee. Some stall kickers stand with the hindquarters near a wall and rhythmically thump the wall with one hind foot while the head bobs in a reciprocating motion as if such behavior brings a sense of contentment. Others may kick or bang whenever someone is in the barn in at attempt to get attention and food. Another style of kicker may rock fore and aft a few times and then let loose with both hinds at once. There can be several such explosive bursts in a row, but because of the energy and balance required, this double-barreled kicker cannot reproduce the characteristic metronome-like thudding of the one-legged kicker. The explosive kicker, however, can wipe out a stall wall in a single kicking bout to say nothing of the damage that can be done to his hind legs. Capped hocks and curbs are often associated with chronic stall kickers; carpitis with stall bangers. Loose, lost, or shifted shoes are common with stall kickers.
Certain horses have a predisposition to neurotic breakdown when faced with insufficient exercise, excess feed, or constantly changing neighbors. This tendency may be genetically inherited, formed from early experiences with the dam or training, or may simply develop later in life. Often, when a neurotic tendency is coupled with a precipitating cause, such as insufficient exercise, the result is a vice such as stall kicking.

Kicking is part of the socially acceptable play among horses, so stall kicking may begin as a natural behavior but may quickly become an exaggerated and obsessive habit. Like many stable vices, stall kicking may be socially contagious. Neighboring horses might merely mimic the behavior of the kicker or might get involved in kicking as an interactive game. And some horses seem to interpret the sound of kicking of a nearby horse as a threat and will kick in defense. However, stall kicking is not usually an act of aggression toward another horse. It is most commonly a means of reacting to domestication or training stresses or a playful diversion invented to thwart boredom.

In some cases, kicking, however, does occur between neighbors who don't get along. A mare that has gone out of estrus (and in some instances, those that are in estrus) may kick at the horse in the next stall whether it is a stallion, gelding, or another mare. Others may have a personality or pecking order conflict. And other horses that are protective of their feed and personal space, may use kicking as a territorial protection measure.

Some horses have learned that a great way to elicit attention from humans, and perhaps even get an extra measure of feed, is to kick. The noise brings someone to the stall often with a diversionary flake of hay or a handful of wafers. The kicking horse has not only received what he wanted but he has actually been rewarded for kicking. The more times a horse is rewarded for a behavior, the more difficult it will be to change. With the long-standing confirmed kicker, there may be no cure, but there certainly are better ways to deal with the vice than using feed as a pacifier and inadvertent positive reinforcement.

Before aggressive remedial measures are implemented, however, a kicker's exercise and feed programs should be carefully evaluated. Any horse, and especially an energetic, inquisitive horse, should have active, sustained exercise at least five times a week. Active, sustained exercise commonly consists of longeing, driving, or riding. Turn-out usually does not yield sustained exercise - after a few leaps and bucks, the horse rolls and may be ready to come back into the barn. A horse's ration should be tailored to meet his energy needs. Too often a horse's ration is set when he is being regularly ridden but is not adjusted when the riding program is interrupted by an injury, poor weather, or the owner's schedule. An overfed, underexercised horse is a prime candidate for developing any of a number of stable vices.

As with all undesirable habits, treatment can consist of psychological or physical means. Any treatment is more successful if it is applied before a habit becomes deeply ingrained. A psychological cure requires identification of the cause of the kicking. A physical cure is aimed at identifying and eliminating a symptom (kicking) of the problem.

From observations, it seems like some horses are actually soothed or placated by the sound of their own hoofs thumping. In such cases, some success has been obtained by padding either the stall walls, the hooves or both. If stall kicking is obviously due to boredom or confinement, the horse can be given additional work sessions or turn-out time in a pasture or run. If this is not possible, often a stall toy offers a diversion. When kicking is due to an incompatible neighbor, shifting the horse's position in the barn may help. If kicking is a means of begging for a treat, tying the horse in his stall so that he cannot reach a wall often prevents kicking but may precipitate pawing.

If a horse has developed a chronic kicking habit or a non-specific overall crankiness, it is best to deal with the symptom of the vice - - the kicking itself. Anyone working with or around a horse that has a tendency to kick is in great potential danger. When trying to change the deeply ingrained habits of a determined kicker, be aware that the horse could hurt you and may end up hurting himself. So, if you do not feel totally competent handling a horse that kicks, get some professional help.

Formal leg restraint lessons such as hobbling, scotch-hobbling, cross-hobbling or side-lining can teach a horse he can't and shouldn't kick but such methods are impractical and dangerous to leave on an unattended stalled horse. Affixing horizontal boards on edge around the inside of the stall could prove beneficial. Attaching them at rump height could prevent the horse from getting close enough to the wall to kick; fixing them at hock height would result in the kicker contacting the board with his flexor tendons, thereby discouraging him from kicking at the wall but creating the possibility of him being injured if he is persistent in his habit. A turn-of-the-century remedy suggests hanging a heavy iron object above the area in the stall where the horse customarily kicks. The object should hit the horse on the top of the rump as he raises up his hindquarters to kick.

Kicking chains have also been used successfully. A chain is suspended from a leather strap which is fastened above the hock. The horse is reprimanded by the chain each time he kicks. Another, simpler, self-training device is a specially shaped horseshoe. It should be circular and brought together at the heels so that it just fits over the leg at the cannon and will slide down over the fetlock and rest on the coronary band. Every time the horse kicks, the shoe bangs the pastern. The question may be raised whether such methods are humane. If a horse has developed a habit of relentless pounding which results in damage to his legs and broken and splintered boards, a fairly convincing remedy needs to be implemented. Before trying any corrective measures, be absolutely sure that the horse is receiving regular adequate exercise, appropriate feed, and has reasonable neighbors.
 

happyappygirl

Rocky Mountain High!!
Percy...with correction, as you know, it is imperative the correction be immediate and fit the crime. I personally think the article Mingz posted has some terrific advice, and would try kick chans or the horseshoe methods described. This way the horse trains itself, and the correction comes ONLY when the incorrect behavior occurs. The only way i wouldn't is if the horse is in a field with other horses, since the correction would occur even if she is defending herself against others in the herd. Can you put her alone for a while to try it?

If not, clinton anderson has recommended and described a shock collar <cllick for tritronics shock collar> that is used by a person, who is out of sight. He had a stallion that did this whenever another horse walked by his stall. He sat outside the stall, with the activator and whapped him EACH and EVERY time he kicked. It only took a time or two for him to make the connection between the kicking and the whapping sensation he recveived, and it LASTED, once he stopped, he didn't do it again. Depending on how fast a whapper you can be, and how dedicated you are, this may be a viable option. but, it has to be consistent and done every time for a period of time to be effective. And perhaps it may have to be repeated? I've never used one on horses, but HAVE used the invisible fence on dogs, which I really like, if you don't have a dog who tests the fence (like one of mine did) and killed the battery. Horses are (maybe) smarter and more sensitive to stuff like this i think.

I would DEFINATELY consider this a vice especially since it will ruin your fencing, not to mention what it will do to her feet and legs if she continues. Is she new to the field? Do you think this may ultimately stop as the honeymoon phase (maybe a month or two) ends?
 
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happyappygirl

Rocky Mountain High!!
Here is a short article on using shock collars on horses:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2287&S=0&SourceID=69

Behavior problems can be a major concern in horses. Specifically, aggressive behavior by one horse toward others can cause injuries to the horses as well as causing a management problem when stabling or feeding. Also, many other undesirable behaviors can cause damage to facilities such as kicking the stalls, cribbing, and pawing. Difficulty in correcting these behaviors stems from the fact that you are not present exactly when the behavior happens, and correction later is ineffective. Dr. Michelle Kennedy has indicated she has had success using an electronic collar that is worn around the horse’s neck. Although electronic, this collar is not the same as collars for dogs as the stimulation supplied by the dog collars is much stronger than the horse collars. The advantage of the collar is the horse can be corrected up to a half mile away at the time the undesirable behavior is occurring. The collar provides a very mild shock and usually causes the horse to stop the behavior immediately.

Dr. Kennedy performed a study in 18 horses that were aggressive in the pasture, in the paddock, or at feeding time. She used the collar for a week on all horses but only had to stimulate the horses 4 times or less. After the week, all horses had stopped the behavior and still did not exhibit the behavior after the collar was removed. Although you may not like to use this method, many horses are so aggressive they are unmanageable and may have to be destroyed. Also, this report indicated only a few stimulations are actually necessary to correct the problem. If you have a horse that is uncontrollable, contact me at for information on this technique.
Date Published: 4/30/2006 6:04:00 PM
Date Revised: 04/30/2006

Tritronics makes one.
 

persimmoncf

Persimmon Creek Farm
Thanks for all of the info...The mare has been on the farm for 6 years and has always had a fence/stall "kicking" issue.
She carries scars and bumps on her lower hinds from her silly activities. It has been increasing in quantity/force over the last months and we beleive it to be possibly hormonal (????) The weekly depro shot or daily oral hormones are VERY expensive...........so I remembered years ago seeing a chain on a horses one hind leg to control kicking....HHUMMM...interesting...could it be that easy? And do you need 2 chains - one for each hind?
Now Mingiz article says to place it above hock. I seem to remember the strap below the fetlock laying on the pastern.
The mare is alone or with friends. I would feel more comfortable for her to be alone with the chain.
I have a behavior shock collar for dogs with a remote, I could modify and use it, but right now I am using it on my husband :killingme
 

mygoldnhorse

Cowgirl Up
:howdy: Percy. How's the honeymooner's?
I use to keep kick chains on Cassie so she would not kick the other horses in the pasture with her. I got them from Country Supply and they did seem to work very well. We would take them off her on trail rides and if a horse came up on her she would kick...so in my opinion the kick chains are just a temporary fix. Where as the shock collar :wench: should be.... behavior modification.
 

happyappygirl

Rocky Mountain High!!
mygoldnhorse said:
:howdy: Percy. How's the honeymooner's?
I use to keep kick chains on Cassie so she would not kick the other horses in the pasture with her. I got them from Country Supply and they did seem to work very well. We would take them off her on trail rides and if a horse came up on her she would kick...so in my opinion the kick chains are just a temporary fix. Where as the shock collar :wench: should be.... behavior modification.
Ask Percy...
Percy does it modify his behavior?

:killingme
 

persimmoncf

Persimmon Creek Farm
mygoldnhorse said:
:howdy: Percy. How's the honeymooner's?
I use to keep kick chains on Cassie so she would not kick the other horses in the pasture with her. I got them from Country Supply and they did seem to work very well. We would take them off her on trail rides and if a horse came up on her she would kick...so in my opinion the kick chains are just a temporary fix. Where as the shock collar :wench: should be.... behavior modification.
No kick chains on Country Supplys web site. Do you still have Cassies? After seeing if they work I could easily make one or a set...(what ever you use). Hey Golden, how about 911 Sat nite?
 

mygoldnhorse

Cowgirl Up
I don't know if I still have them, I have not saw them in a long time. I will look around in the loft to see if I can find them for you. If Country Supply does not have them then I must have gotten them from Valley Vet.
Plumloco did mention 911 Saturday night.........It sounds like we'll be there.
 
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