KRISS:Sub Machine Gun

AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
YouTube - Kriss SMG(.45cal sub machine gun)

I think sub guns are cool but as far as applications in the real world, they are not that useful IMO as I'd rather have a rifle round.

Anyway this is a pretty cool gun, although there is alot of BS and sales pitch going on by the secret SEAL and the rep. in this clip.

I can't stand the persona that the former SEAL takes on for his part as the host of "Future Weapons". I am sure some writer tells him what to say but jeez.... anyway I respect anyone that is a SEAL just wish he wasn't so full of BS for the show.

".45 is a massive round" ?
"knockdown power"?
"stopping power"?
".45 kicks like a mule"?


Also, I like how they shot the metal flip up target COM with the 9mm and then shoot it in the head with the .45 and act like the .45 is so much more powerful because it knocked it down.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
It's a...

...solution in search of a problem in my opinion.

I got to shoot a semi UMP type in .45 and it was very controllable and very accurate and, to me, a great entry style weapon.

Plus, if the .45 is so bad azz, (1 shot, 1 kill!) why would you need it in full auto anyway? You wouldn't. Waste of ammo.

On top of that, 9mm and .45 are falling out of favor for entry anyway, as more and more bad guys are body armored.

AN 94!
or even an ak 74 might be a better choice.
 
clevalley

clevalley

...
Either way it is impressive; getting shot with that would be like getting hit by a dump truck... the control aspect of the action is what impressed me the most.

Wouldn't a .45 pierce body armor @ short range? In full-auto it will definately "dent" the bad guy.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
No...

clevalley said:
Either way it is impressive; getting shot with that would be like getting hit by a dump truck... the control aspect of the action is what impressed me the most.

Wouldn't a .45 pierce body armor @ short range? In full-auto it will definately "dent" the bad guy.
Click to expand...

...it's nothing like getting hit by a dump truck, not even close. A .45 is nice...for a pistol. But it has nowhere near the energy of a 7.62/39 (ak) or 7.62/51 (308) or even a .223 and vests now can stop the ak and .223. Not sure about .308.
 
AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
clevalley said:
Either way it is impressive; getting shot with that would be like getting hit by a dump truck... the control aspect of the action is what impressed me the most.

Wouldn't a .45 pierce body armor @ short range? In full-auto it will definately "dent" the bad guy.
Click to expand...

What? A dump truck? It is a pistol round! And no .45 is stopped by relatively low rated kevlar.

Like Larry said it is a sloution in search of a problem, with all the types of ammo on the market these days there is no reason to carry a rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, other than novelty.
 
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clevalley

clevalley

...
Sorry - I meant compaing a 9mm to a .45 - world of difference in knockdown power.

Did not really think of the .45 bullet shaped/size in piercing kevlar... this head-cold has the best of me right now, not thinking straight. I do remember seeing 9mm long-guns on a shelf and thinking wtf would you use that for...

Larry is right - the higher calibers would be more impressive... I would like to see the KRISS in a .45-70, now there is a dump truck of a round... short range though, but it packs a heck of a whallop!
 
AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
clevalley said:
Sorry - I meant compaing a 9mm to a .45 - world of difference in knockdown power.
Click to expand...

Myth.

hole size and minimal penetration advantage is the only thing that makes .45 "better" than 9mm.

Of course a hit to CNS will knock you down but that has nothing to do with caliber, other than that there is no such thing as "knockdown power"
 
clevalley

clevalley

...
True - knockdown power is a myth and a term which is thrown around too loosely - bad on my part...

The bullet has to get in and stop to do serious damage - or some kind of atroshious expansion while exiting to leave a large exit wound...

Cannon-ball would be more along the lines of knockdown power - more mass! :lmao:

Mass difference between a .45 and 9mm is not a lot... but dynamics of the projectile are a world of difference between the two.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Well...

AK-74me said:
Myth.

hole size and minimal penetration advantage is the only thing that makes .45 "better" than 9mm.

Of course a hit to CNS will knock you down but that has nothing to do with caliber, other than that there is no such thing as "knockdown power"
Click to expand...

...not to start up the whole p9mm/.40/.45 circular argument but there is more mass hitting you with a .45 so, given a choice between the two, I'd rather be shooting Sean Taylors intruder with a .45 rather than a 9mm or a
.40

.45 makes the plates go down faster than 9mm.

Of course there is a couple people on here who know first hand what .44 auto mag does to my steel plates v. .45 ; slaps them plates down, NOW. In fact, it reached the point where the plates were falling down before the shot; they was skeered. :lmao:
 
AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
Larry Gude said:
...not to start up the whole p9mm/.40/.45 circular argument but there is more mass hitting you with a .45 so, given a choice between the two, I'd rather be shooting Sean Taylors intruder with a .45 rather than a 9mm or a
.40

.45 makes the plates go down faster than 9mm.

Of course there is a couple people on here who know first hand what .44 auto mag does to my steel plates v. .45 ; slaps them plates down, NOW. In fact, it reached the point where the plates were falling down before the shot; they was skeered. :lmao:
Click to expand...

I once was shooting at plates with my shotty, racked it, plates fell down, no shots fired, they too were skeered.
 
Novus Collectus

Novus Collectus

New Member
AK-74me said:
What? A dump truck? It is a pistol round! And no .45 is stopped by relatively low rated kevlar.

Like Larry said it is a sloution in search of a problem, with all the types of ammo on the market these days there is no reason to carry a rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, other than novelty.
Click to expand...
Body armor is rated to stop certain rounds......just one of a certain round. Mulitple hits of the same round may penetrate.

Also, usually subgun ammo has more power like +p and also it has a longer barrel which adds to it's muizzle velocity.
 
clevalley

clevalley

...
Which reminds me - I have to go out and sight in a .50 ML here shortly... I picked up a nickle/blk synthetic Optima w/ 3x9 scope for $150 :yay: got to go and make some holy paper!
 
AK-74me

AK-74me

"Typical White Person"
Novus Collectus said:
Body armor is rated to stop certain rounds......just one of a certain round. Mulitple hits of the same round may penetrate.

Also, usually subgun ammo has more power like +p and also it has a longer barrel which adds to it's muizzle velocity.
Click to expand...

Correct, on both accounts, I still want a centerfire rifle round over any pistol round as I said with today's different types of ammo, over penetration and other advantages that could once be said of SMG's are no longer applicable.


I still think they are cool, just dead as yesterdays news as far as real world applications.
 
Novus Collectus

Novus Collectus

New Member
AK-74me said:
Correct, on both accounts, I still want a centerfire rifle round over any pistol round as I said with today's different types of ammo, over penetration and other advantages that could once be said of SMG's are no longer applicable.


I still think they are cool, just dead as yesterdays news as far as real world applications.
Click to expand...
While I agree that you can prevent overpenetration with the proper kind of bullet, and you can probably use a short bullpup firing something like .223 ammo just as easily as many a SBM, I cannot see how a rifle round could practically replace a large caliber, subsonic pistol round in a silenced SBM.
You can load a rifle cartridge to be subsonic....but why? The longer cartridge length and larger magazine would be a hinderance compared to the sub gun's.

I see advantages and disadvantages of both, but I also can't see the SMG being fully replaced.
Want armour piercing capability, then use armor piercing 9mm or amror piercing .45 bullets (which the police can buy).
Want silenced, then use regular velocity .45 ACP ammo and a silencer.
Want easier to handle magazines during a reload, then I would assume the pistol ammo mag would be better.
 
Novus Collectus

Novus Collectus

New Member
AK-74me said:
Military said it didn't meet their standard. I think it had more to do with it didn't meet their rock bottom, low as you can go budget.
Click to expand...
In August the NIJ removed certification of the level III Dragon Skin armor.

The stuff is awesome and I would want to wear it if I was a soldier in battle, but I think there is more to why the military won't issue it than the price......
But I think the price has a whole hell of a lot to do with it too though.
 
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