Ladies and Gentlemen...

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...our Vice President:

THE VICE PRESIDENT: "As most of you know, I have spent a lot of years in public service, and first came to work in Washington, D.C. back in the late 1960s. I know what it’s like to operate in a highly charged political environment, in which the players on all sides of an issue feel passionately and speak forcefully.

In such an environment people sometimes lose their cool, and yet in Washington you can ordinarily rely on some basic measure of truthfulness and good faith in the conduct of political debate. But in the last several weeks we have seen a wild departure from that tradition.

And the suggestion that’s been made by some U. S. senators that the President of the United States or any member of this Administration purposely misled the American people on pre-war intelligence is one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city...

Some of the most irresponsible comments have, of course, come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorizing force against Saddam Hussein. These are elected officials who had access to the intelligence, and were free to draw their own conclusions.

They arrived at the same judgment about Iraq’s capabilities and intentions that was made by this Administration and by the previous Administration. There was broad-based, bipartisan agreement that Saddam Hussein was a threat … that he had violated U.N. Security Council Resolutions … and that, in a post-9/11 world, we couldn’t afford to take the word of a dictator who had a history of WMD programs, who had excluded weapons inspectors, who had defied the demands of the international community, who had been designated an official state sponsor of terror, and who had committed mass murder.

Those are facts.

What we’re hearing now is some politicians contradicting their own statements and making a play for political advantage in the middle of a war. The saddest part is that our people in uniform have been subjected to these cynical and pernicious falsehoods day in and day out. American soldiers and Marines are out there every day in dangerous conditions and desert temperatures – conducting raids, training Iraqi forces, countering attacks, seizing weapons, and capturing killers – and back home a few opportunists are suggesting they were sent into battle for a lie.

The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone – but we’re not going to sit by and let them rewrite history.

We’re going to continue throwing their own words back at them. And far more important, we’re going to continue sending a consistent message to the men and women who are fighting the war on terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other fronts.

We can never say enough how much we appreciate them, and how proud they make us. They and their families can be certain: That this cause is right … and the performance of our military has been brave and honorable … and this nation will stand behind our fighting forces with pride and without wavering until the day of victory.


Thought it was important enough to lay the whole thing out.

http://drudgereport.com/flash1cf.htm
 

wmburdette

9/11 - Never Forget!
Larry Gude said:
Thought it was important enough to lay the whole thing out.
It is important! And sometimes it's even more important to see these people give the same analysis as the President in their own words and images. Play the video in this link. I only wish this video would be played on all the broadcast networks at least once an hour. Norman Podhoretz wrote an excellent piece on this last week that's been referenced in other threads but is still very relevant.

:podhoretzspellingfixed:
 
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CK-1

New Member
You gotta be kidding.. :killingme

This Administration has lied about going to war from the start. The from the WMD to the Urianium. I can see why Democrats would support the war if they where told, "We have intelligence proof that Iraq has WMD" amoung other false claims. Why do you think the Admin. reformed the intelligency area.. :confused: Bottom line"

Inspectors went in looking for weapons.. didn't find any..
Administration got impatient and wanted the inspectors out..
Even the U.N. stated, inspectors needed more time..

End result, no WMD found = Lies.. :whistle:
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
What is an "intelligency area" and how did the Administration reform it?
 

wmburdette

9/11 - Never Forget!
CK-1 said:
This Administration has lied about going to war from the start. The from the WMD to the Urianium. I can see why Democrats would support the war if they where told, "We have intelligence proof that Iraq has WMD" amoung other false claims.

This speech by the Disgraced Former President William Clinton was made two years before President Bush was elected. Maybe you should read it!
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Thanks for the links CK, but I still am not understanding your point. You're claiming that Bush lied about the WMDs, and that Dems only voted going to war because Bush supplied them with false information, hence the administration had to reform the intelligence agencies? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

The realignment of intel agencies that was recommended by the 9/11 commission, and acted upon by the administration, had nothing to do with Iraq intel, real or bogus. It was done out of the need for dissemination of terrorist operational data between FBI (domestic), CIA (foreign), NSA (technical), and other military and government intel agencies. Why do I think they were realigned? Because they weren't talking to one another, partly because of not wanting to work and play well together, but also because several laws prohibited the sharing of information.

As for the yellowcake "lie", you're right in saying that there was a lie. French Intel officials did get spoofed on a claim that the Iraqis had bought yellow cake, but Bush never pushed that as a valid claim. The claim that he pushed was the valid one made by British Intelligence that the Iraqis had tried to buy the yellow cake uranium but that the deal had not gone through. Even Ambassador Wilson stated directly in his reply to the SSIC that his trip to Niger only invalidated the purchase claim received from the French, not the sought claim made by the British and repeated during Bush's SOTU address. So you might as well hang that mantra up as it's been debunked even by the guy who started it.

You're also wrong in stating that we didn't find an WMDs. What we didn't find were any substantial elements of a nuclear program, but we did find missiles for carrying WMDs that were illegal, chemical and biological warheads and shells, etc. The only elements of pre-war intel that were different from post-war were the absence of a substantial nuclear program, the mobile labs, and the numbers of weapons. The intel folks got everything else pretty much right. We found the missles, the bombs, and the warheads, we just didn't find as many as we know they had at one time and the only remaining question is where did they go?

As for the inspectors they did go in looking, and they did find weapons and documents that showed an effort to conceal the whereabouts of these weapons. They also found evidence that showed that weapon destruction information was false as well. But the truth is also that these inspectors were extremely limited to where they could and couldn't look, so it wasn't like they were looking everywhere and didn't find much. Granted Blix said that given more time they might be able to find all the weapons, but the UN inspectors had been saying that since 1993. After 10 years why should anyone believe that the inspectors would have been able to accomplish in six months or six years what they hadn't been able to do in 10 years? At some point you have to say Plan A has failed... so what's Plan B?
 

ylexot

Super Genius
CK-1 said:
End result, no WMD found = Lies.. :whistle:
Do you even know what a lie is? Apparently you do not...

Lie -
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

In other words, repeating the information he had (even if incorrect) is not telling lies.
 

CK-1

New Member
Pete said:
You retard :rolleyes: Intelligence reform was part of the 9/11 commisions reccomendations and both of those links are for late in 2004.


you asked.. I gave fool. According to the admin. and some people on here.. 911 and Iraq are linked.. Iraq has WMD..... :lalala:

Bottom line.. Ya link everything together to prove a point and put everything on Clinton as an excuse.. So now we should separate 911 from Iraq?.. :confused:

The twisted thoughts of Republicans.. Say one thing and back slide on something else.. Overall, they can't keep their mouth shut fo shyt.. :lmao:
 

CK-1

New Member
Bruz.. I'll send you a PM tomorrow on this due to meets I have scheduled later..



Bruzilla said:
Thanks for the links CK, but I still am not understanding your point. You're claiming that Bush lied about the WMDs, and that Dems only voted going to war because Bush supplied them with false information, hence the administration had to reform the intelligence agencies? I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.

The realignment of intel agencies that was recommended by the 9/11 commission, and acted upon by the administration, had nothing to do with Iraq intel, real or bogus. It was done out of the need for dissemination of terrorist operational data between FBI (domestic), CIA (foreign), NSA (technical), and other military and government intel agencies. Why do I think they were realigned? Because they weren't talking to one another, partly because of not wanting to work and play well together, but also because several laws prohibited the sharing of information.

As for the yellowcake "lie", you're right in saying that there was a lie. French Intel officials did get spoofed on a claim that the Iraqis had bought yellow cake, but Bush never pushed that as a valid claim. The claim that he pushed was the valid one made by British Intelligence that the Iraqis had tried to buy the yellow cake uranium but that the deal had not gone through. Even Ambassador Wilson stated directly in his reply to the SSIC that his trip to Niger only invalidated the purchase claim received from the French, not the sought claim made by the British and repeated during Bush's SOTU address. So you might as well hang that mantra up as it's been debunked even by the guy who started it.

You're also wrong in stating that we didn't find an WMDs. What we didn't find were any substantial elements of a nuclear program, but we did find missiles for carrying WMDs that were illegal, chemical and biological warheads and shells, etc. The only elements of pre-war intel that were different from post-war were the absence of a substantial nuclear program, the mobile labs, and the numbers of weapons. The intel folks got everything else pretty much right. We found the missles, the bombs, and the warheads, we just didn't find as many as we know they had at one time and the only remaining question is where did they go?

As for the inspectors they did go in looking, and they did find weapons and documents that showed an effort to conceal the whereabouts of these weapons. They also found evidence that showed that weapon destruction information was false as well. But the truth is also that these inspectors were extremely limited to where they could and couldn't look, so it wasn't like they were looking everywhere and didn't find much. Granted Blix said that given more time they might be able to find all the weapons, but the UN inspectors had been saying that since 1993. After 10 years why should anyone believe that the inspectors would have been able to accomplish in six months or six years what they hadn't been able to do in 10 years? At some point you have to say Plan A has failed... so what's Plan B?
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
CK, I will challenge you to find anywhere that anyone in the Administration ever linked 9/11 to Iraq. They never have to the best of my knowledge (which is considerable.) The Democratic chatter on this issue stems from what was said by Dick Cheney during an interview with Tim Russert on Sep 13, 2003. The segment in question went as follows:

MR. RUSSERT: The Washington Post asked the American people about Saddam Hussein, and this is what they said: 69 percent said he was involved in the September 11 attacks. Are you surprised by that?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I think it’s not surprising that people make that connection.

MR. RUSSERT: But is there a connection?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: We don’t know. You and I talked about this two years ago. I can remember you asking me this question just a few days after the original attack. At the time I said no, we didn’t have any evidence of that. Subsequent to that, we’ve learned a couple of things. We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the ’90s, that it involved training, for example, on BW and CW, that al-Qaeda sent personnel to Baghdad to get trained on the systems that are involved. The Iraqis providing bomb-making expertise and advice to the al-Qaeda organization.

We know, for example, in connection with the original World Trade Center bombing in ’93 that one of the bombers was Iraqi, returned to Iraq after the attack of ’93. And we’ve learned subsequent to that, since we went into Baghdad and got into the intelligence files, that this individual probably also received financing from the Iraqi government as well as safe haven.

Now, is there a connection between the Iraqi government and the original World Trade Center bombing in ’93? We know, as I say, that one of the perpetrators of that act did, in fact, receive support from the Iraqi government after the fact. With respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it. We just don’t know.

Please note that it was speculation by the media after 9/11, not comments from the Administration, that started the 9/11-Iraq link. Cheney was just responding to that speculation. Also, note that Cheney spells out the connections between al-Qaeda and Iraq, but twice says "we don't know" of any connections between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks. So "we" have no ability to seperate 9/11 from Iraq because "we" never connected them. It was misinformed people on the left and the right who thought that, primarily because of some crappy reporting by the media.

As for Clinton, he had chances to get Bin Ladin and didn't follow up. Clinton's Administration was the one that ignored the evidence that Mohammed Atta was an al-Qaeda agent in 2000. Clinton was the one who opted to boost the image and reputation of the Bin Ladin and al-Qaeda on the Arab street by not taking Reagan-esque action against them. It was the Clinton Administration that treated international terrorist actions as domestic crimes. The only ball dropping I've seen for Bush was his administration didn't act on the flight school reports. So, who messed up more here, and deserves more of the blame???

Lastly, you talk about Republicans saying one thing then backsliding to another, but what have you been doing? You initially stated that Bush had lied to the Dems and as a result has been forced to reform the intelligene agencies. When you shown to be wrong on both those counts, you then slide to linking 9/11 and Iraq, and how we're blaming Clinton.. and you're wrong on both those counts also. So what's next... that Bush lied about not having sexual relations with Valerie Plame?
 
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CK-1

New Member
I'm not for Republicans or Democrats. During this Bush Administration I have seen more corruption than any other Admin. I can remember. You can post speeches, videos.. etc to prove your point, but fact is gas prices hit a all time record high, heating bills will hit records hights this winter, we are fighting a War that didn't need to be fought.

Some would say, "Hurricanes caused the high gas prices". Ok, but gas prices were rising anyway before the storms even formed. The American People are outraged with gas prices while Big Oil profits. If your a Boss and see your employee's upset, you will automatically do something to help. This Admin. suggests we drill in Alaska somewhere.. What is that going to do?.. just prices down a few cents for a week. People are just fed up!!.

Went to War in Iraq.. did it prove anything?.. You have millions of dollars uncounted for in construction contracts. Soldiers killed daily, for what.. because Saddam was considered a terrorist?. People are now realizing we need a exit plan for our troops.
 

Pete

Repete
CK-1 said:
I'm not for Republicans or Democrats. During this Bush Administration I have seen more corruption than any other Admin. I can remember. You can post speeches, videos.. etc to prove your point, but fact is gas prices hit a all time record high, heating bills will hit records hights this winter, we are fighting a War that didn't need to be fought.

Some would say, "Hurricanes caused the high gas prices". Ok, but gas prices were rising anyway before the storms even formed. The American People are outraged with gas prices while Big Oil profits. If your a Boss and see your employee's upset, you will automatically do something to help. This Admin. suggests we drill in Alaska somewhere.. What is that going to do?.. just prices down a few cents for a week. People are just fed up!!.

Went to War in Iraq.. did it prove anything?.. You have millions of dollars uncounted for in construction contracts. Soldiers killed daily, for what.. because Saddam was considered a terrorist?. People are now realizing we need a exit plan for our troops.
You got a little foam on the corner of your mouth. yeah....no the otherside....yeah you got it. :yay:


:roflmao: fool
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
CK-1 said:
you asked.. I gave fool. According to the admin. and some people on here.. 911 and Iraq are linked.. Iraq has WMD..... :lalala:

Bottom line.. Ya link everything together to prove a point and put everything on Clinton as an excuse.. So now we should separate 911 from Iraq?.. :confused:

The twisted thoughts of Republicans.. Say one thing and back slide on something else.. Overall, they can't keep their mouth shut fo shyt.. :lmao:
No one has linked Iraq with 9/11, but what has been done that slips through that sieve like mind of yours is link Saddam with Al Qaeda. This linking predates the Bush administration and 9/11, furthermore it substantiates that Iraq was a supporter of international terrorism. For instance;

  • The Clinton Justice Department's allegation in a 1998 indictment (two months before the embassy bombings) against bin Laden, stating that: “In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.”

  • Seized Iraq Intelligence Service records indicating that Saddam's henchmen regarded bin Laden as an asset as early as 1992.

  • Saddam's hosting of al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri beginning in the early 1990’s, and reports of a large payment of money to Zawahiri in 1998.

  • Saddam’s ten years of harboring of 1993 World Trade Center bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin.

  • Iraqi Intelligence Service operatives being dispatched to meet with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998 (the year of bin Laden’s fatwa demanding the killing of all Americans, as well as the embassy bombings).

  • Saddam’s official press lionizing bin Laden as “an Arab and Islamic hero” following the 1998 embassy bombing attacks.

  • The continued insistence of high-ranking Clinton administration officials to the 9/11 Commission that the 1998 retaliatory strikes (after the embassy bombings) against a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory were justified because the factory was a chemical weapons hub tied to Iraq and bin Laden.

  • Top Clinton administration counterterrorism official Richard Clarke’s assertions, based on intelligence reports in 1999, that Saddam had offered bin Laden asylum after the embassy bombings, and Clarke’s memo to then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, advising him not to fly U-2 missions against bin Laden in Afghanistan because he might be tipped off by Pakistani Intelligence.
 

CK-1

New Member
This is a current CNN article about the WMD and Bad Iraq Intellegence..

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/16/cheney/index.html


Ken King said:
No one has linked Iraq with 9/11, but what has been done that slips through that sieve like mind of yours is link Saddam with Al Qaeda. This linking predates the Bush administration and 9/11, furthermore it substantiates that Iraq was a supporter of international terrorism. For instance;

  • The Clinton Justice Department's allegation in a 1998 indictment (two months before the embassy bombings) against bin Laden, stating that: “In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.”

  • Seized Iraq Intelligence Service records indicating that Saddam's henchmen regarded bin Laden as an asset as early as 1992.

  • Saddam's hosting of al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri beginning in the early 1990’s, and reports of a large payment of money to Zawahiri in 1998.

  • Saddam’s ten years of harboring of 1993 World Trade Center bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin.

  • Iraqi Intelligence Service operatives being dispatched to meet with bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1998 (the year of bin Laden’s fatwa demanding the killing of all Americans, as well as the embassy bombings).

  • Saddam’s official press lionizing bin Laden as “an Arab and Islamic hero” following the 1998 embassy bombing attacks.

  • The continued insistence of high-ranking Clinton administration officials to the 9/11 Commission that the 1998 retaliatory strikes (after the embassy bombings) against a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory were justified because the factory was a chemical weapons hub tied to Iraq and bin Laden.

  • Top Clinton administration counterterrorism official Richard Clarke’s assertions, based on intelligence reports in 1999, that Saddam had offered bin Laden asylum after the embassy bombings, and Clarke’s memo to then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, advising him not to fly U-2 missions against bin Laden in Afghanistan because he might be tipped off by Pakistani Intelligence.
 
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