LDS practice chills gathering RC family histories

nhboy

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories

"The Vatican's recent ban on Mormon microfilming and digitizing of Catholic parish records out of concern they will be used for the LDS practice of baptizing the dead may have a wide-ranging and chilling effect on the whole family history enterprise, some professional genealogists say.
"It's going to close off a great many countries and even Catholic dioceses in America whose records haven't been microfilmed," says Jim Petty, past president of Utah's chapter of the Association of Professional Genealogists. "This makes it difficult for genealogists of any religion."
A letter from the Vatican called LDS baptisms for the dead a "detrimental practice" and directed each Catholic diocesan bishop "not to cooperate with the erroneous practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
"The problem is not about making historical records available for research," said Monsignor Terrence Fitzgerald of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City. "The problem is with baptism for the dead. I wouldn't want my mom and dad who were lifelong Catholics to be baptized LDS. I don't think it works, but I still think it's disrespectful."

LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories - Salt Lake Tribune
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
nhboy said:
LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories

"The Vatican's recent ban on Mormon microfilming and digitizing of Catholic parish records out of concern they will be used for the LDS practice of baptizing the dead may have a wide-ranging and chilling effect on the whole family history enterprise, some professional genealogists say.
"It's going to close off a great many countries and even Catholic dioceses in America whose records haven't been microfilmed," says Jim Petty, past president of Utah's chapter of the Association of Professional Genealogists. "This makes it difficult for genealogists of any religion."
A letter from the Vatican called LDS baptisms for the dead a "detrimental practice" and directed each Catholic diocesan bishop "not to cooperate with the erroneous practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
"The problem is not about making historical records available for research," said Monsignor Terrence Fitzgerald of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City. "The problem is with baptism for the dead. I wouldn't want my mom and dad who were lifelong Catholics to be baptized LDS. I don't think it works, but I still think it's disrespectful."

LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories - Salt Lake Tribune
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If they aren't a real religion, why should the Catholics care? The Baptisms should mean nothing to them.
 
I

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Yep! Once a person is dead, NOTHING anyone does on earth can change anything about them or where they are so it's really harmless ignorance on the part of the LDS.
 
Bavarian

Bavarian

New Member
nhboy said:
LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories

"The Vatican's recent ban on Mormon microfilming and digitizing of Catholic parish records out of concern they will be used for the LDS practice of baptizing the dead may have a wide-ranging and chilling effect on the whole family history enterprise, some professional genealogists say.
"It's going to close off a great many countries and even Catholic dioceses in America whose records haven't been microfilmed," says Jim Petty, past president of Utah's chapter of the Association of Professional Genealogists. "This makes it difficult for genealogists of any religion."
A letter from the Vatican called LDS baptisms for the dead a "detrimental practice" and directed each Catholic diocesan bishop "not to cooperate with the erroneous practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
"The problem is not about making historical records available for research," said Monsignor Terrence Fitzgerald of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City. "The problem is with baptism for the dead. I wouldn't want my mom and dad who were lifelong Catholics to be baptized LDS. I don't think it works, but I still think it's disrespectful."

LDS practice chills gathering of Catholic family histories - Salt Lake Tribune
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The point highlighted. It is disrespectful of the dead and their families.
 
P

pipes

New Member
First let me put it out there that I was raised a Mormon, and do still believe in many of the teachings. Now with that said, It is not the intention of the LDS church to disrespect anybody, dead or alive. We believe in Eternal life and whether someone is Dead or alive need to be Baptized under the everlasting covenent. For those that have past on, they are given the oportunity to accept the baptism or choose not to. If you have a question about this there is always someone is willing to explain it. I have done geneology for my family so hearing this does make me wish that it didn't have to be this way. It is all just misunderstanding a belief.
 
Starman3000m

Starman3000m

New Member
pipes said:
First let me put it out there that I was raised a Mormon, and do still believe in many of the teachings. Now with that said, It is not the intention of the LDS church to disrespect anybody, dead or alive. We believe in Eternal life and whether someone is Dead or alive need to be Baptized under the everlasting covenent. For those that have past on, they are given the oportunity to accept the baptism or choose not to. If you have a question about this there is always someone is willing to explain it. I have done geneology for my family so hearing this does make me wish that it didn't have to be this way. It is all just misunderstanding a belief.
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The "everlasting covenant" that you describe is to be "baptized by proxy" into the Mormon faith which is definitely not the fundamental Christian basis or meaning of baptism as described in the New Testament. The Biblical text used by Joseph Smith was actually taken out of context.

Also, how can a person who has passed on already be given a choice to accept or not accept the baptism that the LDS wants to do on their behalf?

This is as if you are saying that there is a "spiritual-type purgatory" where the departed souls are waiting for the LDS to baptize them out of?
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Bavarian said:
The point highlighted. It is disrespectful of the dead and their families.
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They don't just baptize every dead human being from the beginning of time (6000 years ago). A family memebr does the genealogy for his/her family, and the family member adds the names to the list of those to be baptised.

Say you had a great grandfather that was executed for stealing a horse. You can add his name (I can't) to the list, and have him baptised, and supposedly forgiven his sins and given an opportunity to enter heaven. Whereas if he died swinging from the noose an evil man, with no religous affiliation, he would be condemned to spend all eternity in hell.

What would you rather do for your kin? Let them rot for all time and eternity in hell, or give them a chance for redemption and let the doors to heaven open for them.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Starman3000m said:
The "everlasting covenant" that you describe is to be "baptized by proxy" into the Mormon faith which is definitely not the fundamental Christian basis or meaning of baptism as described in the New Testament. The Biblical text used by Joseph Smith was actually taken out of context.

Also, how can a person who has passed on already be given a choice to accept or not accept the baptism that the LDS wants to do on their behalf?

This is as if you are saying that there is a "spiritual-type purgatory" where the departed souls are waiting for the LDS to baptize them out of?
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Is this also not practiced by the Masons?
 
Starman3000m

Starman3000m

New Member
itsbob said:
Is this also not practiced by the Masons?
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Regardless of which group practices it, this is all done in vain. The Holy Bible states that once you die - that's it. The judgment for eternal salvation will be based on the decision a person made while he/she was alive:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(Hebrews 9:27-28)
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Starman3000m said:
Also, how can a person who has passed on already be given a choice to accept or not accept the baptism that the LDS wants to do on their behalf?
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Their souls still thrive, though their bodies have past. You being a Christian should know this to be truth. Their souls can still determine if they accept Christ or not if given the chance. They can also chose to accept the baptism or not.

This is where the Mormons differ most from Catholics and Methodists. Very few are eternally damned for (unforgivable) sins on earth (murderer is a good example of the few), for God knows men are frail, and easy to lead astray. Everyone is given a chance upon passing to accept Christ and God, those that don't accept don't go to the kingdoms of heaven. Those that are given the choice here on earth are given another chance, and those that turned away here on earth are again given another chance, afterall, ours is a forgiving and caring God.

When you are baptised, and accept the baptism, you are given the purpose and right to live beside God IF you chose to accept Him.

Just think of all those Pygmies that never heard the word of God, never given a chance, all rotting in Catholic or Protestant hell.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Starman3000m said:
Regardless of which group practices it, this is all done in vain. The Holy Bible states that once you die - that's it. The judgment for eternal salvation will be based on the decision a person made while he/she was alive:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(Hebrews 9:27-28)
Click to expand...

No, not regardless.. Masons are a Christian group, not a Mormon group. (though you can be a Mason and a Mormon, even though the church frowns upon it).

You are reading an awful lot into that one passage.. nowhwere does it say.. You get one chance, and only one chance.. You're eternal salvation is determined by what you do now, while you are alive.

You have perfected reading between the lines, and swallowing whole the truth that someone chooses to tell you is truth.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Starman3000m said:
Regardless of which group practices it, this is all done in vain. The Holy Bible states that once you die - that's it. The judgment for eternal salvation will be based on the decision a person made while he/she was alive:
Click to expand...

AND the baptism of the dead, sealing for all time and eternity.. etc.. etc.. are ALL Chrsitian Temple Rites performed in Temples prior to the Bible being written, as witnessed by the stoneworkers (Masons) building the same temples.
 
Starman3000m

Starman3000m

New Member
itsbob said:
Their souls still thrive, though their bodies have past. You being a Christian should know this to be truth. Their souls can still determine if they accept Christ or not if given the chance. They can also chose to accept the baptism or not.

This is where the Mormons differ most from Catholics and Methodists. Very few are eternally damned for (unforgivable) sins on earth (murderer is a good example of the few), for God knows men are frail, and easy to lead astray. Everyone is given a chance upon passing to accept Christ and God, those that don't accept don't go to the kingdoms of heaven. Those that are given the choice here on earth are given another chance, and those that turned away here on earth are again given another chance, afterall, ours is a forgiving and caring God.

When you are baptised, and accept the baptism, you are given the purpose and right to live beside God IF you chose to accept Him.

Just think of all those Pygmies that never heard the word of God, never given a chance, all rotting in Catholic or Protestant hell.
Click to expand...

Regarding the classic argument about the pygmies who never had a chance to hear about Jesus... I believe that God has a spiritual way of reaching all people with His Plan of Salvation before they pass on. The Holy Bible states that we do not need a man to teach us because it is the Holy Spirit of God who intercedes in a person's life to witnesses God's Truth and Salvation Plan.

Meanwhile - as the Holy Bible states: "and as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." (Hebrews 9:27-28)
 
Starman3000m

Starman3000m

New Member
itsbob said:
No, not regardless.. Masons are a Christian group, not a Mormon group. (though you can be a Mason and a Mormon, even though the church frowns upon it).

You are reading an awful lot into that one passage.. nowhwere does it say.. You get one chance, and only one chance.. You're eternal salvation is determined by what you do now, while you are alive.

You have perfected reading between the lines, and swallowing whole the truth that someone chooses to tell you is truth.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the Mason's accept all stations of faith in their doctrinal beliefs. The common belief is that the Mason's are a "Christian group" but that organization is not based on true fundamental tenets of Christianity when you really research into its beliefs, rituals and traditions.
 
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