Let's talk about the Law...

baydoll

New Member
The 'Law' as in God's Commandments in the Old Testament. What is it and why is it different from what Christ commands in the New Testament?

For extra bonus points, what does it mean when the New Testament states that Christians are no longer 'under' the Law?

*Edited to add: clarifying this a bit further: what was the purpose of the Law?
 
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hotcoffee

New Member
What a great thread this is going to be!

Jesus had his bouts with "the law".

In Matthew 12 Jesus had a run in with the Pharisees because as they were walking through the fields His disciples gathered a little grain. Then Jesus healed a man with a shriveled hand. The Pharisees accused them of breaking the law of the Sabbath.

In John 5 Jesus healed a man at the pool and had yet another run in with the "Law".

Jesus said "Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Matthew 12:12.

God gave us 10 Commandments as well as other laws to teach us to be civil much like we treat children to get along and stay healthy.... one good basic example is potty training. In Deuteronomy 23:12 God taught His people, through Moses, that you just shouldn't go potty wherever you choose.

Deuteronomy 23:12 Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself.​

In the New Testament the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus. That's when Jesus gave us the answer to your question baydoll.

Matthew 22:34-40 The Greatest Commandment

Matthew 22:34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Matthew 22:37 Deut. 6:5
Matthew 22:39 Lev. 19:18

If a law is contrary to the two greatest commandments as Jesus stated them here.... then the Law is wrong...

The law said we should not lift a finger on the Sabbath because God rested on the Sabbath. Jesus said [paraphrasing His words] if someone needs your help, Sabbath or not, you should help them. IMHO

:coffee:
 

StoneThrower

New Member
Ok so were talking the moral law.
The law was given to Gods chosen people to show them there need for a savior as no one could keep it so it left then Helpless hopeless and hell bound the sacrifices were implemented as a covering for sin and the lamb need to be spotless but it was never perfect and a lamb was only a partial payment as in order to be an acceptable sacrifice it need to be one of us a sinless man.
Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world in Hebrews we read how he was a better sacrifice that He fulfilled the law. Once sin and death was defeated the law only works as a school master to show us our sin, to lead us to the savior but for the believer it has been fulfilled. Christ implemented a new and better covenant.
 

migtig

aka Mrs. Giant
There are 613 commandments in the Old Testament.

Jesus taught that it's not so much about the Law as it's written, but the spirit of the law and what is intended.

He stated he did not come to abolish the old Law but to fulfill them.

Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace, and sin is no longer a Christian's master.

However, I've seen many instances where that doesn't appear to be true.

So I think what all of that actually means is that Christians have the opportunity for redemption, if they repent of their sins. Their sins would consist of breaking one of the 613 commandments.
 

baydoll

New Member
This, I've always had a problem with. Why are they "chosen" over others? Is not every being supposed to equal in god's eyes? Equally loved? Equally blessed, Equally a child of him?
No. The Jews were 'chosen' to be God's representatives of Him. It has nothing to do with being 'better' than everybody else. They're sinners in need of a Savior just like everybody else on this planet.

As for being 'a child of God' all people are God’s creation but only those who are born again are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10).

Read more here: http://www.gotquestions.org/all-God-children.html#ixzz3MLYWKuM4

Doesn't matter if one is a Jew or not.
 

baydoll

New Member
What a great thread this is going to be!
Thanks hotcoffee!

In the New Testament the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus. That's when Jesus gave us the answer to your question baydoll.

Matthew 22:34-40 The Greatest Commandment

Matthew 22:34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


Matthew 22:37 Deut. 6:5
Matthew 22:39 Lev. 19:18

If a law is contrary to the two greatest commandments as Jesus stated them here.... then the Law is wrong...

The law said we should not lift a finger on the Sabbath because God rested on the Sabbath. Jesus said [paraphrasing His words] if someone needs your help, Sabbath or not, you should help them. IMHO


It's not so much that the law was/is 'wrong' but more like the 'old' (letter of the law) had/has to be replaced by the 'new' (Christ - who perfectly fulfilled the law; see Romans 8:2-4). That was the whole purpose of the law in the first place- to point sinning man (or woman) to Christ (see Galatians 3:25-26).

Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Galatians 3:21-23
The 'law' was given to restrain the 'old man'. In other words, if a man is (for example) a thief at heart, he therefore needs an outward 'law' (the Ten Commandments) to keep him from stealing. But if he becomes honest in his heart (by coming to Christ to fulfill this law within him), he no longer 'needs' this 'outward' law.

Christ bestowed upon us a new life from Himself, and the fulfilling of the law is simply the fruit of the new life thus given.
 
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baydoll

New Member
Ok so were talking the moral law.
The law was given to Gods chosen people to show them there need for a savior as no one could keep it so it left then Helpless hopeless and hell bound the sacrifices were implemented as a covering for sin and the lamb need to be spotless but it was never perfect and a lamb was only a partial payment as in order to be an acceptable sacrifice it need to be one of us a sinless man.
Jesus is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world in Hebrews we read how he was a better sacrifice that He fulfilled the law. Once sin and death was defeated the law only works as a school master to show us our sin, to lead us to the savior but for the believer it has been fulfilled. Christ implemented a new and better covenant.
Amen and exactly! :smile:

Also too, the old covenant was/is based on the principle of work and wages:

"Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt" (Romans 4:4).
"For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)
But the New says:

"A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." (Galatians 2:16)
"But to him who does not work BUT BELIEVES ON HIM who justifies the ungodly, his FAITH is accounted for righteousness." (Romans 4:50).
(emphasis mine.)
 

baydoll

New Member
Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace, and sin is no longer a Christian's master.

However, I've seen many instances where that doesn't appear to be true.
Well I think this is because none of us (Christians) are perfect nor will we be until the Day the Lord takes us Home. But that does not mean we can sin and get away with it either.
 

Zguy28

New Member
The Law is a schoolmaster who points us to Christ for salvation. Christians do not live or die according to it anymore, but we are instructed to keep it.

Romans 3:31
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Well I think this is because none of us (Christians) are perfect nor will we be until the Day the Lord takes us Home. But that does not mean we can sin and get away with it either.
We won't be perfect when the day comes when the Lord takes us home.... We just won't be tempted anymore....

Oh at least that's how I heard it....

:coffee:
 

baydoll

New Member
The Law is a schoolmaster who points us to Christ for salvation. Christians do not live or die according to it anymore, but we are instructed to keep it.

Romans 3:31
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
But once one becomes a Christian, are they then instructed to keep all of the law? Remember Paul also said "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." and "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. " (Galatians 5:18, 22-23)

And also:

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. " (Romans 8:2-4)
 

baydoll

New Member
We won't be perfect when the day comes when the Lord takes us home.... We just won't be tempted anymore....

Oh at least that's how I heard it....

:coffee:
Good one! I like that!

Even though us Christians strive to be like Christ in everything we do, say and think, sometimes we will fail miserably. I know I do.. I wouldn't be honest if I said otherwise. So does that make me a hypocrite? No, it makes me human. So as long as I live and breathe and have my being on this woefully fallen planet I won't be perfect.

Just forgiven, praise God! :smile:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
This, I've always had a problem with. Why are they "chosen" over others? Is not every being supposed to equal in god's eyes? Equally loved? Equally blessed, Equally a child of him?
I've always interpreted 'chosen' to mean 'believers'. If you don't believe, God has no expectation you will abide by his commandments.
 
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