Life is all about Paul!!

[seekeroftruth]

2 Corinthians 12:1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. 6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say, 7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.​

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Good morning! This is from the commentary.

Such a one was caught up to the third heaven: The third heaven doesn’t suggest different “levels” of heaven (although this is what some ancient Jewish Rabbis believed). Instead, Paul is using terminology common in that day, which referred to the “blue sky” as the first heaven, the “starry sky” as the second heaven, and the place where God lived and reigned as the third heaven.​

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He was caught up into Paradise: Paul identifies this third heaven as Paradise. The word Paradise is taken from the Persian word for an enclosed, luxurious garden often only found among royalty in the ancient world.​

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And heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter: In describing this heavenly vision, Paul doesn’t relate anything he saw, only a shadowy description of what he heard.​

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So what did Paul hear? We don’t know! They were inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. God didn’t want us to know, so He didn’t give Paul permission to speak.​

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A thorn in the flesh was given to me: To prevent being exalted above measure, Paul was given this. In this, Paul reveals the real reason for telling of his heavenly vision: not to glorify himself but to explain his thorn in the flesh.​

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I've heard preachers make a big deal about Paul being "everyman" and how he was "chosen" to deal with a "thorn".

We all have thorns. Paul isn't anyone special. I figured his thorn was homosexuality. It was illegal in the day. It's still unspeakable now in most areas. Or, maybe he helped a woman dispose of a baby... abortion... and he deals with it daily. Maybe he stood by and watched a disciple take his last breath without stopping the murder and he has to live with that over and over and over and over again.

I seriously doubt that he is talking about something as mundane as skin cancer or leprosy. Having cancer or leprosy is not a crime. One preacher told us that "Paul suffered from being short". Being short and ugly, thankfully, is not a crime.

Paul claims something happened fourteen years ago. The commentary says there simply isn't enough data to pinpoint when this life changing experience occurred exactly, so they can't figure it out. I don't think I should write what I think happened. We'll just stick with short and ugly.... because homosexual experiences or drinking blood don't digest well in church.

Up until lately, I figured Paul had a physical ailment, like cancer. Now that I'm old.... [73 ain't spring chicken ya know] ... I really hope cancer or something equally mundane isn't what Paul is going on about. I live in a retirement community.... they carry men and women out of here draped in black all the time lately. They took a guy out of here yesterday who was known to be "a real jerk". Do you think his jerkiness could be a thorn?

I'd like to think God took the time to give me cancer and watch me deal with it to judge how I handle it. How bigheaded would I have to be to think God would stop everything, including war in Jerusalem, to test me? Boy what a huge head that would require. Besides that, God knows my life better than I do, so taking the time to watch me deal with cancer would be a waste of God's valuable time. Besides that, I'm nobody. No one wrote about me in the Bible.

Maybe Paul was short because his big head weighed him down. God didn't give him that horror, whatever it is. God gave him the talent to deal with it. Paul choses to complain.... and that is on him, not God.

What was Paul's thorn?

In verse 4 Paul says the thorn is one of those "things that no one is permitted to tell".

Paul was a Super Jew. He was a member of the Sanhedrin, the Supreme Council, who voted to put Jesus on the Cross.

Maybe Paul's thorn really was just that he had a big head about how "respected" he should be!

One thing for sure....

Paul had a big head!

Life is all about Paul!!

 

[SamSpade]

(BTW - this is often one of my favorite passages to read)

This chapter of course, follows the chapter where he also includes so very many of the perils he face - and that list is incredible - I don't know if surviving being stoned and dragged outside the city - because I was believed to be DEAD - and continue to preach. And it is in concert with the general theme of both Corinthian letters - knowledge (or pride) puffs up, but love builds up. In both letters, he has to address this constant issue of people thinking they're better than others. The famous "love chapter" was written specifically to address this problem.

This was in an age where people generally believed that misfortune meant the gods didn't like you, or that there was something inferior about you. And in Corinth, there were busybodies who tried to dismiss what Paul said, saying he wasn't really an apostle, he wasn't as good to listen to as the others. There were people who used the gifts given them to "prove" they were superior.

-We all have thorns. Paul isn't anyone special. I figured his thorn was homosexuality.-

I have wondered this too. Paul wasn't married, but traditions says he was at one time. In the Bible, if you were never married, you are called a virgin. But the Greek word he uses often for himself is translated "unmarried". As in, no longer married. And it would have been unusual for a Pharisee to never marry.

ON THE OTHER HAND - whatever his thorn was, he was deeply vexed, maybe even ashamed of it, but certainly bothered enough that he begged God to take it away. I've heard and read all kinds of conjectures - for example, widely speculated that Paul was going blind - it's written in the New Testament that he had an amanuensis - someone who wrote things down for him - in Galatians 6 he writes the weird comment "see what big letters I write" - perhaps an indication that he could barely see.

Other conjectures - speech impediment, perhaps a stutter. After all, the frequent critique of Paul was that he wrote well but spoke poorly. Other conjectures - constant pain. I can't imagine how Paul could have been beaten SO OFTEN, and not have permanent pain.

But he said - it was meant to keep him humble. The fact that he doesn't disclose it I believe is a good thing - else generations of Christians would NOT be able to relate by their own hardships.