March 6, 1857

[theHypocrite]

The U.S. Supreme Court hands down its decision on Sanford v. Dred Scott, a case that intensified national divisions over the issue of slavery.

In 1834, Dred Scott, a slave, had been taken to Illinois, a free state, and then Wisconsin territory, where the Missouri Compromise of 1820 prohibited slavery. Scott lived in Wisconsin with his master, Dr. John Emerson, for several years before returning to Missouri, a slave state. In 1846, after Emerson died, Scott sued his master's widow for his freedom on the grounds that he had lived as a resident of a free state and territory. He won his suit in a lower court, but the Missouri supreme court reversed the decision. Scott appealed the decision, and as his new master, J.F.A. Sanford, was a resident of New York, a federal court decided to hear the case on the basis of the diversity of state citizenship represented. After a federal district court decided against Scott, the case came on appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, which was divided along slavery and antislavery lines; although the Southern justices had a majority.

Supreme Court rules in Dred Scott case — History.com This Day in History — 3/6/1857

 

[vraiblonde]

Proof that the Supreme Court is not judicial, but just as political and ideological as the Justices that make it up.

Negro slavery is a fascinating time in our history - or any country's history, really. It would be interesting to go back in time and get into the head of a slave owner just to try and understand how they justify treating human beings like livestock. I understand that they didn't consider Negroes really "human" but it's hard to wrap my mind around that.

 

[MadDogMarine]

.....
Negro slavery is a fascinating time in our history - or any country's history, really. It would be interesting to go back in time and get into the head of a slave owner just to try and understand how they justify treating human beings like livestock. I understand that they didn't consider Negroes really "human" but it's hard to wrap my mind around that.

What is even more fascinating is the Christian history of our great nation.

"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

Many do not know the man who authored "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave ship engaged in the business of human trafficking.
Therin the phrase "a wretch like me"
His name was John Newton
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That sav’d a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev’d;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ’d!

Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promis’d good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call’d me here below,
Will be forever mine.

 

[ginwoman]

What is even more fascinating is the Christian history of our great nation.

"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

Many do not know the man who authored "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave ship engaged in the business of human trafficking.
Therin the phrase "a wretch like me"
His name was John Newton
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That sav’d a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev’d;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ’d!

Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promis’d good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call’d me here below,
Will be forever mine.

Do you know if John Newton was still trafficking at the time he wrote the song?

 

[vraiblonde]

Many do not know the man who authored "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave ship engaged in the business of human trafficking.

I did not know that, but am not surprised. Slavery was widely practiced in Biblical times, and is mentioned in a matter-of-fact manner in the Bible. So Christians preaching grace and salvation while owning human slaves comes as no surprise.

But you highlight my point: how can supposed Christians not see that human trafficking is wrong, no matter what happened in their Bible a thousand years prior? You shouldn't have to be taught that that sort of thing is immoral and cruel - one would think it would be innate common sense.

 

[Merlin99]

I did not know that, but am not surprised. Slavery was widely practiced in Biblical times, and is mentioned in a matter-of-fact manner in the Bible. So Christians preaching grace and salvation while owning human slaves comes as no surprise.

But you highlight my point: how can supposed Christians not see that human trafficking is wrong, no matter what happened in their Bible a thousand years prior? You shouldn't have to be taught that that sort of thing is immoral and cruel - one would think it would be innate common sense.

It's very easy, you just convince yourself that they are not human, once you get past that hurdle anything is possible (just ask Hitler).

 

[MadDogMarine]

Do you know if John Newton was still trafficking at the time he wrote the song?

After his conversion, He started to treat them well and eventually left the trade and became a minister. That is when the song was written. Do a google search for "John Newton" for more info.

 

[vraiblonde]

It's very easy, you just convince yourself that they are not human, once you get past that hurdle anything is possible (just ask Hitler).

That's why it would be interesting to have a conversation with a slave owner. I mean, how do you look at some little black kid and not see a human child? But then you look at serial killers and child abusers and realize there are an awful lot of vicious insane savages among us.

 

[theHypocrite]

What is even more fascinating is the Christian history of our great nation.

"The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

Many do not know the man who authored "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave ship engaged in the business of human trafficking.
Therin the phrase "a wretch like me"
His name was John Newton
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That sav’d a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev’d;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ’d!

Thro’ many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promis’d good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call’d me here below,
Will be forever mine.

then how do you explain the many Christian groups that endorsed slavery (i.e. the Southern Baptist)

 

[MMDad]

I did not know that, but am not surprised. Slavery was widely practiced in Biblical times, and is mentioned in a matter-of-fact manner in the Bible. So Christians preaching grace and salvation while owning human slaves comes as no surprise.

But you highlight my point: how can supposed Christians not see that human trafficking is wrong, no matter what happened in their Bible a thousand years prior? You shouldn't have to be taught that that sort of thing is immoral and cruel - one would think it would be innate common sense.

I recently looked through my family history and found that my ancestors were most likely abolitionists from the time they got here from Edinburgh around 1700. That was a big part of the hatred against them after they became Mormon and had to flee for their lives. In fact, in 1838 the governor of Mississippi issued an order that "the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State." That order was not rescinded until 1976. There's strong evidence that the hatred against Mormons today is still left over from their early abolitionist policies.

Do you ever watch the show "Gold Rush Alaska?" These supposed Christians openly pray for gold - not for god's will or anything else, just gold. Maybe that's why they are total failures - they think that God cares about their greed and will reward their incompetence with piles of gold just because they pray for it, completely ignoring the blatant hypocrisy.

Bottom line, as soon as money is involved most people surrender to their greed, and they find ways to justify it by perverting their faith.

 

[theHypocrite]

I did not know that, but am not surprised. Slavery was widely practiced in Biblical times, and is mentioned in a matter-of-fact manner in the Bible. So Christians preaching grace and salvation while owning human slaves comes as no surprise.

But you highlight my point: how can supposed Christians not see that human trafficking is wrong, no matter what happened in their Bible a thousand years prior? You shouldn't have to be taught that that sort of thing is immoral and cruel - one would think it would be innate common sense.

should we approve of Egypt's bondage of the Israelites 'cause slavery was widely practice?

did Jesus Christ advocate slavery

 

[MadDogMarine]

I did not know that, but am not surprised. Slavery was widely practiced in Biblical times, and is mentioned in a matter-of-fact manner in the Bible. So Christians preaching grace and salvation while owning human slaves comes as no surprise.

But you highlight my point: how can supposed Christians not see that human trafficking is wrong, no matter what happened in their Bible a thousand years prior? You shouldn't have to be taught that that sort of thing is immoral and cruel - one would think it would be innate common sense.

Human trafficking is much more complicated than a single moral issue. Most of the Africans sold into slavery had been captured by rival African tribes. The normal course was to kill all their captives. It was a spiritual voodoo ritual which brought power from the gods who demanded blood sacrifices. Much like todays spiritual(satanic) sacrifices but now done in secret. It was only when the tribes were to be paid did the killing stop. If you had been captured and the choice was death or stay alive and be sold into slavery, what would your choice be?
Would you then curse the man who bought you and saved your life?
The Bible tolerates it because the focus of the Bible is this life is only temporary and God is a just God. All men will come before the judgement seat, hence slaves are to serve their masters and masters were to take care of their slaves if they found themselves in that situation. It did not mean they should cease finding a means to eliminate their slavery.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matt 16:26

 

[theHypocrite]

Human trafficking is much more complicated than a single moral issue. Most of the Africans sold into slavery had been captured by rival African tribes. The normal course was to kill all their captives. It was a spiritual voodoo ritual which brought power from the gods who demanded blood sacrifices. Much like todays spiritual(satanic) sacrifices but now done in secret. It was only when the tribes were to be paid did the killing stop. If you had been captured and the choice was death or stay alive and be sold into slavery, what would your choice be?
Would you then curse the man who bought you and saved your life?
The Bible tolerates it because the focus of the Bible is this life is only temporary and God is a just God. All men will come before the judgement seat, hence slaves are to serve their masters and masters were to take care of their slaves if they found themselves in that situation. It did not mean they should cease finding a means to eliminate their slavery.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matt 16:26

i am sure that the slaves and their descendants (who were born into slavery) would 100% agree with your twisted rationale. next you'll probably tell us that the Christian slave owners bought and then released those slaves

 

[MMDad]

should we approve of Egypt's bondage of the Israelites 'cause slavery was widely practice?

did Jesus Christ advocate slavery

Is English your native language? Is your problem an inability to understand the words, or an inability to comprehend the meaning of the words?

 

[vraiblonde]

should we approve of Egypt's bondage of the Israelites 'cause slavery was widely practice?

did Jesus Christ advocate slavery

Reading for comprehension is obviously not your strong suit.

 

[vraiblonde]

i am sure that the slaves and their descendants (who were born into slavery) would 100% agree with your twisted rationale. next you'll probably tell us that the Christian slave owners bought and then released those slaves

Can you please just for a few minutes get off this "I hate Christians" mantra and try to actually follow the conversation?

 

[MadDogMarine]

i am sure that the slaves and their descendants (who were born into slavery) would 100% agree with your twisted rationale. next you'll probably tell us that the Christian slave owners bought and then released those slaves

What twisted rationale is that??
My statement "It did not mean they should cease finding a means to eliminate their slavery."

Anyone knowing the slightest history of the abolitionist movement realizes it was started and promulgated by Christians. Here is one small example of many. Link
An Anti-Slavery Manual, or, The Wrongs of American Slavery Exposed By the Light of the Bible and of Facts, with A Remedy for the Evil (1851), by Rev. John G. Fee

"next you'll probably tell us that the Christian slave owners bought and then released those slaves"

So tell me great wise hypocrite, how is one to do that when people then are like they are today. Struggling to make ends meet and put food on the table.
So tell me great wise hypocrite, How many slaves have you purchased and released. How many pimps have you approached and offered to buy their "white slaves" so you could release them, many of whom are minors?

 

[vraiblonde]

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matt 16:26

Nice quote

About the greed that MMDad brought up, Zig Ziglar (for those who don't know) is a motivational speaker, focusing on sales. Back in the 80s and early 90s he was right up there with Tony Robbins as far as being the guru of the seminar.

He is supposedly a Christian, and what turned me off of him is he said, in one of his seminars that I attended, that we've heard it said that "ye cannot serve God and mammon," and some Christians take that to mean they shouldn't be chasing the almighty dollar. He "responded" to that with, "God wants us to be materially wealthy and he wants his followers to have the lion's share."

This got enormous applause, but I was like, "Um, I don't think that's what that means...."

Anyway, when MM mentioned praying for gold, it reminded me of ol' Zig and his greed. Which ties into our conversation, how people can justify all sorts of ugly behavior and still say they're doing the Lord's work.

 

[n0n1m0us3]

That's why it would be interesting to have a conversation with a slave owner. I mean, how do you look at some little black kid and not see a human child? But then you look at serial killers and child abusers and realize there are an awful lot of vicious insane savages among us.

Some of these black children were even fathered by their white slave masters, and still kept by their own fathers as slaves...
Even in the times where slavery was legal many people did not agree with it, they did not own slaves. I think it may have been easier to justify at the time because it was legal and in some circles the cultural norm, but the mind set as to who could own a slave then, I would have to say is the same mind set that allows people to enslave others today...simply put I would say you have to be a pretty "bad" person to own another human being.

 

[Hessian]

Wallbuilders...

collected a series of quotes from several of our founding fathers: Each bearing a strong denunciation of the "institution:"

Luther Martin (Delegate to Const. Conv.)-Maryland: walked out when the convention would not adopt a strategy to abolish slavery.
John Adams (& J Q Adams)
Benjamin Rush (Founded Abolitionist society)
Patrick Henry (After lengthy conversations with Rev Benezet)
John Dickenson
John Jay (1st Sup Crt)

These & 20 + others are on the record denouncing slavery. However, the prevailing thought of the time followed GW's ideas: Slavery WILL fade away like the pattern of New England (less than 3500 slaves in the 1790 census)
and for the sake of our UNION: please do not offend the south (remember Virginia at the time had the largest population & most income (1790) so,...they bit their tongue and in less than 5 years, slavery started to rebound ...due to the emergence of the Cotton gin (which none had foreseen)

SO,....while most people are oblivious to the time sequence, original documents, and sentiments} thus framing their opinions in ignorance of the era...we have a duty to READ and educate those who hammer Christians over slavery issues: Bottom Line: Christianity was the largest force to UNDUE slavery by the 1840's.....

IF we had jumped onto Darwin's beliefs, then slavery might have lasted much longer! A "superior species" has triumphed and can either eradicate or manipulate a lesser species for its own benefit: end of the story. Natural selection wins.