Anyone play golf? If you do I am sure you watched this years Masters. If this is the kind of competition Tiger Woods is going to get, he just might win 30 majors. Who will stop him? The way I see it everyone else gets scared and falls apart and basically hands Tiger the tournament on a silver platter.
Masters
- Thread starter BL
- Start date
Ken,
I do believe Tiger’s skills for the most part are superior, but in major tournaments that Tiger has won he is 7-0 when tied for or leading after the third round. Bob May is the only person who has applied any pressure in these type situations in the 2000 PGA Championship, and he is not even one of the top 20 players in the world, so he had nothing to loose. It just seems like the best players in the world know that when Tiger is in the hunt he is probably going to win and they do things they are not capable of doing or just give up. I believe these players’ games are good enough; they just don’t have it between the ears. At least Jack Nicklaus had Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, and even Tom Watson pushing him to the limit
I do believe Tiger’s skills for the most part are superior, but in major tournaments that Tiger has won he is 7-0 when tied for or leading after the third round. Bob May is the only person who has applied any pressure in these type situations in the 2000 PGA Championship, and he is not even one of the top 20 players in the world, so he had nothing to loose. It just seems like the best players in the world know that when Tiger is in the hunt he is probably going to win and they do things they are not capable of doing or just give up. I believe these players’ games are good enough; they just don’t have it between the ears. At least Jack Nicklaus had Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, and even Tom Watson pushing him to the limit
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I was wondering if anyone cared about all of this...
Arnold Palmer said long ago that golf is 10% physical and 90% mental.
Talent is a complete non-factor here. Every one of those guys has the talent to score low enough to win any given week. Sergio, Ernie, Phil, Retief, Vijay, anybody in the top 30 world wide is just an incredible golfer.
Will to win, defined as answering the questions of what one has to do to win a given event BEFORE the first tee shot AND sticking to those answers correctly is what Tiger is all about. He is the direct heir to Jack Nicklaus in that regard.
This is no secret. Tiger used to do it and then fall back on talent alone during a round if things got tough and try the wrong shot at the wrong time and not do so good. Contrary to popular myth, he hasn't won every time he's ever played.
Ernie Els had it all set up and quit on his game plan on 13 tee. Just brain freeze. He took himself out of the game. Hell, he froze twice on the same hole, the tee shot and the pitch out.
Phil still refuses to make a solid, adaptable game plan. He tries to birdie every hole, no matter his position. After bidieing 1 and 2 he HAD to back off just a hair and let the pressure at least bare on Tiger a bit. Instead, he stays with the razers edge and falls off. Not even Tiger is gonna shoot 18 under in one round.
Singh, more mental failure. After blowing the tee shot on 15 he HAD to put his layup back some and to the left of the fairway for the best angle and distance to that back right pin. Nope. Brain fart. Close and right, BEGGING for disaster. Your welcome dumbass, the pond says.
Goosen is the only guy who stuck with the plan and if Tiger bogies 17 and Retief birdies, well, it's pressure galore on Tiger on 18. At least he gave himself a chance. You can't help a shakey start but he stuck with it and was the only guy who gave himself hope.
Tiger looks to play at par or a bit better on Thursday and Friday. Looking for 1 or 2 under instead of some great 66 or 65 takes all the pressure off for two days. Saturday is moving day. Everybody who's got the game let's it out a bit on Saturday. On Sunday, Tiger got off to a great start and just did what his opponents asked of him, nothing, the rest of the day.
He lays up on 13 and 15, eagle/birdied holes. They are also are the last, along with 16, disaster holes. He didn't need to do anything special.
He never had to make a great shot on the back nine.
He, like Jack is now letting everybody else throw up on themselves while he just stays with the plan and walks it in.
BL is so right about Trevino and Watson. They matched Jacks head and produced legendary golf.
Until Ernie and Phil and all the rest get sharper in their game plans and ability to stick with it and react correctly under pressure we will not get those great battles and that is the real shame because they have the ability.
Phil is a mess because he wasn't that dissapointed with his play. Fine, be happy with third.
Ernie was trying to point out that the results were not from lack of everyone trying, and he is right. It's just that they need to stop confusing effort with results.
They have to accept that if Tiger is on, his A game, yeah, they'll probably lose BUT he won't be playing that way all the time and they MUST at least allow their own talent to pressure Tiger the rest of the time.
Arnold Palmer said long ago that golf is 10% physical and 90% mental.
Talent is a complete non-factor here. Every one of those guys has the talent to score low enough to win any given week. Sergio, Ernie, Phil, Retief, Vijay, anybody in the top 30 world wide is just an incredible golfer.
Will to win, defined as answering the questions of what one has to do to win a given event BEFORE the first tee shot AND sticking to those answers correctly is what Tiger is all about. He is the direct heir to Jack Nicklaus in that regard.
This is no secret. Tiger used to do it and then fall back on talent alone during a round if things got tough and try the wrong shot at the wrong time and not do so good. Contrary to popular myth, he hasn't won every time he's ever played.
Ernie Els had it all set up and quit on his game plan on 13 tee. Just brain freeze. He took himself out of the game. Hell, he froze twice on the same hole, the tee shot and the pitch out.
Phil still refuses to make a solid, adaptable game plan. He tries to birdie every hole, no matter his position. After bidieing 1 and 2 he HAD to back off just a hair and let the pressure at least bare on Tiger a bit. Instead, he stays with the razers edge and falls off. Not even Tiger is gonna shoot 18 under in one round.
Singh, more mental failure. After blowing the tee shot on 15 he HAD to put his layup back some and to the left of the fairway for the best angle and distance to that back right pin. Nope. Brain fart. Close and right, BEGGING for disaster. Your welcome dumbass, the pond says.
Goosen is the only guy who stuck with the plan and if Tiger bogies 17 and Retief birdies, well, it's pressure galore on Tiger on 18. At least he gave himself a chance. You can't help a shakey start but he stuck with it and was the only guy who gave himself hope.
Tiger looks to play at par or a bit better on Thursday and Friday. Looking for 1 or 2 under instead of some great 66 or 65 takes all the pressure off for two days. Saturday is moving day. Everybody who's got the game let's it out a bit on Saturday. On Sunday, Tiger got off to a great start and just did what his opponents asked of him, nothing, the rest of the day.
He lays up on 13 and 15, eagle/birdied holes. They are also are the last, along with 16, disaster holes. He didn't need to do anything special.
He never had to make a great shot on the back nine.
He, like Jack is now letting everybody else throw up on themselves while he just stays with the plan and walks it in.
BL is so right about Trevino and Watson. They matched Jacks head and produced legendary golf.
Until Ernie and Phil and all the rest get sharper in their game plans and ability to stick with it and react correctly under pressure we will not get those great battles and that is the real shame because they have the ability.
Phil is a mess because he wasn't that dissapointed with his play. Fine, be happy with third.
Ernie was trying to point out that the results were not from lack of everyone trying, and he is right. It's just that they need to stop confusing effort with results.
They have to accept that if Tiger is on, his A game, yeah, they'll probably lose BUT he won't be playing that way all the time and they MUST at least allow their own talent to pressure Tiger the rest of the time.
Larry,
I agree with you 100%. It is just disappointing to not see someone put some pressure on Woods. Like you and I said some of these guys obviously have the physical talent to do that, but until then I guess we will see Tiger walk away with at least 1 or 2 majors a year (that is incredible). Phil is the biggest disappointment of all, he is always satisfied.
I agree with you 100%. It is just disappointing to not see someone put some pressure on Woods. Like you and I said some of these guys obviously have the physical talent to do that, but until then I guess we will see Tiger walk away with at least 1 or 2 majors a year (that is incredible). Phil is the biggest disappointment of all, he is always satisfied.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
BL,
Yeah, old happy Phil...
It's kinda hard to critizise the guy because he does put on such a show. Some older people say he's the new Arnie in that he just goes for it. One of these days (weeks) he's gonna "click", hopefully in a major, a put on a legendary show, like Norman at the Players when he shot -24 or Tiger at Augusta in '97.
No other sport has four Super Bowls a year, four climaxes like golf. They do have their opportunities.
What did you think of the changes at Augusta?
Yeah, old happy Phil...
It's kinda hard to critizise the guy because he does put on such a show. Some older people say he's the new Arnie in that he just goes for it. One of these days (weeks) he's gonna "click", hopefully in a major, a put on a legendary show, like Norman at the Players when he shot -24 or Tiger at Augusta in '97.
No other sport has four Super Bowls a year, four climaxes like golf. They do have their opportunities.
What did you think of the changes at Augusta?
Larry,
I think the changes favored the longer hitters. I know everyone was praising the changes to the course but I do not think it was a good idea. What they should have done was grew the rough out and added some bunkers here and there. This would have made the course more difficult than just adding 300 yards. It would have kept everyone in the tournament too. As far as Phil being compared to Arnie, I don’t get it because Arnie won some majors some of the time and pulled off those impossible shots some of the time. Phil just falls apart.
I think the changes favored the longer hitters. I know everyone was praising the changes to the course but I do not think it was a good idea. What they should have done was grew the rough out and added some bunkers here and there. This would have made the course more difficult than just adding 300 yards. It would have kept everyone in the tournament too. As far as Phil being compared to Arnie, I don’t get it because Arnie won some majors some of the time and pulled off those impossible shots some of the time. Phil just falls apart.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
BL,
The comparison is just because he always tries to make bird. He, nor anyone else, will ever be Arnie! It's more the Arnie spirit he gives off with his reckless play. Phil has made some super shots over his years, though. He’s been so close in a few majors.
As far as the changes, yeah, Charles Barkley tried to say he changes at AN were racist, anti-Tiger. What BS!
Hootie Johnson made some great comments about the course lengthening.
Apparently, the big concern was that so many players were hitting short irons into to many greens. So, the goal became to try and get the old shot values back, to get the club in players hands that Jones and McKenzie designed it for. That, I applaud.
I think it is missing the point when people talk of making a course harder for a given player, Nicklaus or Woods. That thought leaves out the beauty of golf…everybody has to play the same course!
Johnson said that they really didn’t care about the scoring, just the clubs the guys were using and I believe him, though, by definition, you’re gonna score higher if you’re hitting longer clubs for four days, right?
Here’s the thing…we didn’t really get to see much of the changes, as the course was damp and the greens holding pretty good for all four rounds. Let’s see what it plays like if it gets hot and dry! Apparently, Monday and some of the other early practice days were like that and people were getting eaten alive!
I look forward to that.
The comparison is just because he always tries to make bird. He, nor anyone else, will ever be Arnie! It's more the Arnie spirit he gives off with his reckless play. Phil has made some super shots over his years, though. He’s been so close in a few majors.
As far as the changes, yeah, Charles Barkley tried to say he changes at AN were racist, anti-Tiger. What BS!
Hootie Johnson made some great comments about the course lengthening.
Apparently, the big concern was that so many players were hitting short irons into to many greens. So, the goal became to try and get the old shot values back, to get the club in players hands that Jones and McKenzie designed it for. That, I applaud.
I think it is missing the point when people talk of making a course harder for a given player, Nicklaus or Woods. That thought leaves out the beauty of golf…everybody has to play the same course!
Johnson said that they really didn’t care about the scoring, just the clubs the guys were using and I believe him, though, by definition, you’re gonna score higher if you’re hitting longer clubs for four days, right?
Here’s the thing…we didn’t really get to see much of the changes, as the course was damp and the greens holding pretty good for all four rounds. Let’s see what it plays like if it gets hot and dry! Apparently, Monday and some of the other early practice days were like that and people were getting eaten alive!
I look forward to that.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That has been discussed. Augusta has not written off the idea of a "Masters" ball. It would be the simplest way of equalizing equipment, as the same idea with clubs would truly be a nightmare. Think "Lawsuit"!
It would be easy, to me, to rotate the ball manufacturer from year to year. Clubs? No way that I see.
I tend to not really care about the equipment much as everybody has access to the same stuff if they think it important, but, wouldn't it be interesting to see a tournament like the Masters, with all of its lore, history and comparing of players from different eras, conducted next year with equipment from 30 years ago? Even 20 years ago? What is Jacks 271 vs. Tigers 270 with the same tools?
There is no doubt that the older guys, Jack, Arnie, Archer, Colbert, all of them, are playing older courses now from places they never saw when they were young and that does cheapen the games history some to me.
Gene Sarazens double eagle at 15 was hit with a 4 wood for crying out loud! Tiger hit wedge or 9 all four rounds last year.
Of course, the actual conditioning of the courses is a factor to. Up scale muni tee boxes are nicer than the greens Bobby Jones putted on.
Are you an equipment guy, gotta have the latest, greatest? I haven’t bought a new driver in 10 years (Big Bertha War Bird). I wonder if it really is the equipment or is it simply the athleticism of these guys? Bob Toski and many other of the old timers were just stereotypical little tiny dudes in bad pants!
It would be easy, to me, to rotate the ball manufacturer from year to year. Clubs? No way that I see.
I tend to not really care about the equipment much as everybody has access to the same stuff if they think it important, but, wouldn't it be interesting to see a tournament like the Masters, with all of its lore, history and comparing of players from different eras, conducted next year with equipment from 30 years ago? Even 20 years ago? What is Jacks 271 vs. Tigers 270 with the same tools?
There is no doubt that the older guys, Jack, Arnie, Archer, Colbert, all of them, are playing older courses now from places they never saw when they were young and that does cheapen the games history some to me.
Gene Sarazens double eagle at 15 was hit with a 4 wood for crying out loud! Tiger hit wedge or 9 all four rounds last year.
Of course, the actual conditioning of the courses is a factor to. Up scale muni tee boxes are nicer than the greens Bobby Jones putted on.
Are you an equipment guy, gotta have the latest, greatest? I haven’t bought a new driver in 10 years (Big Bertha War Bird). I wonder if it really is the equipment or is it simply the athleticism of these guys? Bob Toski and many other of the old timers were just stereotypical little tiny dudes in bad pants!
Larry
I am not a real big equipment guy. I have had the same clubs for about 8 years now. I usually am in the 70’s with them. But occasional I can break par. I don’t play as much as I used to, so high 70’s is more like it these days. I cant see spending 500+ dollars on a driver and over a 1000+ on a set of irons. My dad builds clubs and gives me a set when I need it. They are just as good or better than anything out on the market. BTW who do you think will win the U.S. OPEN?
I am not a real big equipment guy. I have had the same clubs for about 8 years now. I usually am in the 70’s with them. But occasional I can break par. I don’t play as much as I used to, so high 70’s is more like it these days. I cant see spending 500+ dollars on a driver and over a 1000+ on a set of irons. My dad builds clubs and gives me a set when I need it. They are just as good or better than anything out on the market. BTW who do you think will win the U.S. OPEN?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
BL,
I think a single digit handicap qualifies you to comment on equipment!
I don't care what clubs I have or what tees I play: I may break 80 from the back or shoot in the 90's from the front. When I can't find my swing it is a painful sight to behold.
US Open...Bethpage Black...I've heard this is one of the greatest courses, bar none, in the nation if not the world. I can't wait to see it. Having a public course as the host is just an awesome idea IMHO.
Winner? Tiger Woods has made it rather clear that the challenge du jour, to him, is to win all four in the same season. Until his fellow competitors start thinking better AND follow their plan, I think he'll win it.
Maybe the Masters is the set up for what we all, I think, want: A tight duel with all the big names right their plus a Cinderella, late Sunday. Nothing in golf is like those late round 3 and 4 footers at a US Open. The others have plenty of tap ins with approaches and even t shots being the big shot, but the US Open, man...Sometimes it looks like they can't even pull the trigger.
One of my favorite things about our Open is Monday play offs. They are usually anti climactic but, imagine Tiger, Ernie, Phil, Retief, maybe Monty and Sergio playing 18 together on Monday...
I gotta believe that all those guys and more are simply boiling to win over him and working as hard as they can on their game...while he does the same!
Somebody has to be his Trevino or Watson, right?
I think a single digit handicap qualifies you to comment on equipment!
I don't care what clubs I have or what tees I play: I may break 80 from the back or shoot in the 90's from the front. When I can't find my swing it is a painful sight to behold.
US Open...Bethpage Black...I've heard this is one of the greatest courses, bar none, in the nation if not the world. I can't wait to see it. Having a public course as the host is just an awesome idea IMHO.
Winner? Tiger Woods has made it rather clear that the challenge du jour, to him, is to win all four in the same season. Until his fellow competitors start thinking better AND follow their plan, I think he'll win it.
Maybe the Masters is the set up for what we all, I think, want: A tight duel with all the big names right their plus a Cinderella, late Sunday. Nothing in golf is like those late round 3 and 4 footers at a US Open. The others have plenty of tap ins with approaches and even t shots being the big shot, but the US Open, man...Sometimes it looks like they can't even pull the trigger.
One of my favorite things about our Open is Monday play offs. They are usually anti climactic but, imagine Tiger, Ernie, Phil, Retief, maybe Monty and Sergio playing 18 together on Monday...
I gotta believe that all those guys and more are simply boiling to win over him and working as hard as they can on their game...while he does the same!
Somebody has to be his Trevino or Watson, right?
Larry,
I have heard good things about Bethpage. If Tiger wins I think he just might run the tables. He won’t come out and say it but he wants to silent all of the critics about winning all 4 majors in one year. If he does, that would be insane. I thought it could never be done in today’s age with the depth of the field. But who knows with Tiger?
I have heard good things about Bethpage. If Tiger wins I think he just might run the tables. He won’t come out and say it but he wants to silent all of the critics about winning all 4 majors in one year. If he does, that would be insane. I thought it could never be done in today’s age with the depth of the field. But who knows with Tiger?