Matthew 12:40

rstrats

Member
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights?
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights?
There are grounds for debate, even in my assembly of Brethren, of a Thursday or Friday execution of our Lord and Savior. "Three days and three nights" does not necessarily require 72 hours need to elapse between the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, due to the Jewish reckoning that any part of a day is a whole day.

The verse also says Jonah was in the belly of the fish or whale for three days and nights. The connection between the two requires an historical Jonah who was actually swallowed by a very big fish.

Seeing that I believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God, and even though it is difficult to go against nearly 2,000 years of tradition of a Good Friday, I tend to lean for a Thursday crucifixion, but it really doesn't matter. It is not an eternal issue that affects personal salvation through belief in the execution, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, why it happened, and for the purpose of it happening.
 

rstrats

Member
b23hqb,

re: "Three days and three nights" does not necessarily require 72 hours..."

But it does require at least parts of three days and at least parts of three nights. That is unless there are examples from the first century or before that show that that absolutey, no doubt about it, couldn't have been the case.


re: "..., due to the Jewish reckoning that any part of a day is a whole day"

As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a calendar day as a whole calendar day I would agree, but when "nights" is added to "days" to yield the phrase "X days AND X nights" it normally refers to a measurement of a time period where "day" refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and "night"refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase X days AND X nights was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English.. If you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it. That is what the OP is requesting.



re: "It is not an eternal issue that affects personal salvation..."

It might. When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His entombment for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time in the tomb, then He would not qualify.
 

Zguy28

New Member
Here is a good article (IMHO) dealing with this.

On what day was Jesus crucified?

I think the conclusion is spot on:

In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday.
 

rstrats

Member
Zguy28,

re: " What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve."

Although completely off topic, I just have to ask - what punishment did the Messiah take that would otherwise have to be taken by sinners?
 

Zguy28

New Member
Zguy28,

re: " What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve."

Although completely off topic, I just have to ask - what punishment did the Messiah take that would otherwise have to be taken by sinners?
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

So, somehow, by believing in what Jesus did in order to be saved, we are reconciled to God and Justified (a legal term in the Greek) and His wrath is removed from us.

But how? Did it just magically get removed? That wouldn't be very just on God's part to just let sinners off the hook.

God's justice had to be satisfied.

Galatians 3:13
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”

On the cross Jesus experienced way more than physical suffering. In some incomprehensible way to us, He was somehow separated from fellowship with the Father and suffered God's wrath or curse, something all people deserve, because we all sin.

Romans 6:36
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Its free because somebody else paid for it.

Why do you think He was so distraught in the garden, knowing what was coming? It wasn't the physical pain He was anxious about.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I'll stick with my post in #2, and the quote by Zguy in post #4 echos that as well.

The day of the week is not an eternal issue, IMHO. There is certainly room for discussion on that topic, though.

I'm just glad Jesus died for my sins, and because of that, I and millions of others, simply following the pattern scripture laid out for salvation, have been saved through His work on the cross, His burial, and His resurrection.:buddies:
 
Last edited:

rstrats

Member
b23hgb,

re: "I'll stick with my post in #2..."


Since you say that you lean toward a 5th day of the week crucifixion, you don't have a problem with the 3 nights of Matthew 12:40. It's the 6th day of the week crucifixion adherents that have a problem with having to get around the 3 days and 3 nights. Many of them try to do that by saying that the verse is using commom Jewish idiomatic language. I am simply asking them for an actual example of such usage which shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I lean toward a Thursday, but I'm not completely dogmatic on it, simply because there are arguments scripturally for a Wednesday execution, as well as the Jewish reckoning of days and nights for a Friday execution. I'm just more convinced with the symbolism of Jonah in the belly of the fish representing Jesus as the three days and nights between the crucifixion and resurrection.:buddies:
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
rstrats - here is a good link that really gets down to it for the possible days. I use CARM a lot, right now for the first time on this topic, along with a number of other really good Bible sites:

On what day was Jesus crucified and buried on? - Page 8

It is a really good piece of work, and only takes a few minutes to read.

This last paragraph says it all about the importance of whatever day it was:

"In the grand scheme of things, it is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died—to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life! This is equally true whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday."
 

rstrats

Member
b23hqb,

re: "...here is a good link that really gets down to it for the possible days."


I started this topic not with the intent of hashing over the day of the crucifixion but rather with the intent of seeing if any of the writing requested in the OP exists. So far none has been provided.
 

rstrats

Member
Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week may know of some writing.
 

rstrats

Member
Perhaps a further rewording of the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion folks, they frequently assert that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language. I wonder if anyone knows of any writing that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to make that assertion.
 

rstrats

Member
PsyOps,
re: "If I said I thought it was on the 5th day, am I no longer saved?"

What makes you think that it might be a salvation issue?


And even if it were an issue, why would thinking that the crucifixion took place on the most likely day of the week, i.e. the 5th day, cause a loss of salvation?
 
Last edited:

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
PsyOps,
re: "If I said I thought it was on the 5th day, am I no longer saved?"

What makes you think that it might be a salvation issue?
I think PsyOps is saying what you just said, and what I believe: It is not an issue concerning salvation and eternity. God left a number of mysteries open in the Bible, and I think He gets a kick out of seeing us thinking and talking about those mysteries, which, in reality, we are talking about Him. Talking about Him is always good.
 

Dondi

Dondi
Perhaps an explanation from a Rabbi might clear things up. He tends to believe that Christ was crucified on Wednesday and that the three days/nights is NOT an idiom:

http://tzion.org/articles/threedays.html

I think he makes some interesting points, especially about the Passover Lamb preparation.
 
Last edited:

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Perhaps an explanation from a Rabbi might clear things up. He tends to believe that Christ was crucified on Wednesday and that the three days/nights is NOT an idiom:

http://tzion.org/articles/threedays.html

I think he makes some interesting points, especially about the Passover Lamb preparation.
I sort of lean that way because there were two Passovers that week. Either Wednesday or Thursday seems to make more sense chronologically than Friday, but this Christian will not be dogmatic on this topic.

BTW, I have read that exact same commentary before, explained in the Jewish reckoning.
 

hotcoffee

New Member
you probably answered this before in this thread.... but what day of he week was the Passover lamb slaughtered?

:coffee:
 
Top