McCain and Bush: Wrong again.

[Toxick]

Also, don't hold you breath waiting for oil companies to collapse nor the middle east oil kingdoms. They know what they've got. They'll divest when the time comes. Most likely, you'll come up with the battery and they'll buy you out.

Wanna know what I think down in my little heart-of-hearts?




I think they already have something that's better, cleaner, cheaper and more efficient than fossil fuels. But it maximizes $$$ to hold off on it, until fossil fuels are depleted or become sooo freaking expensive that nobody can afford it any more.

I believe that, but since it's just speculation, I don't use it in discussions.

 

[MMDad]

...is king. It's the best, easiest and cheapest; it's free, there for the taking.

Solar is no more free than oil is. It's there for the taking, but so is oil. Solar must be collected, just like oil. It must be stored and processed, just like oil must be.

The maximum possible is 1KW per square meter. If we assume a perfect solar cell, it would take more than one billion square meters of cells to replace our current generating capacity. Since we have nights, double that. Clouds, smog, and water vapor means double it again.

We're up to five billion square meters.

Currently, the best cells operate at about 22% efficiency. Breakthrough technology hopes to get 50% efficiency one day.

Now we're at 10 billion square meters. That's 4,000 square miles of solar cells to handle today's electricity load.

Next is the cost of 4,000 square miles of solar cells. And the land to put them on. And the distribution system.

Then comes maintenance of the cells. They have a lifespan. They get dirty. They are subjected to harsh environmental conditions. It's not build it then it's free.

Now let's add more cells to support our growing infrastructure......

If you want to add even more cells to power cars and replace heating oil........

Solar has a great "gee-whiz" factor, but it really isn't as free as people think it is. It might be part of the solution, but it will never be THE solution.

 

[Larry Gude]

My point...

Solar has a great "gee-whiz" factor, but it really isn't as free as people think it is. It might be part of the solution, but it will never be THE solution.

...was that solar is right there; oil MUST be brought up. Solar is right there. Obviously, our current abilities make it problematic.

I think I read somewhere that if we covered New Mexico in solar panels we'd be off to a good start in terms of what you're talking about, current ability.




BTW: Did you know that one of the qualifications for would be electricians seeking employment is current ability?

 

[MMDad]

BTW: Did you know that one of the qualifications for would be electricians seeking employment is current ability?

Remember what we told you about telling jokes?

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

Remember what we told you about telling jokes?

...watt?

 

[Bruzilla]

Obviously, our current abilities make it problematic.

And that's the problem. It would be great if we had fuel cell cars that run on water and cost so little everyone can get one right now, but our current abilities in this area are problematic too. Yet we have lots of folks wanting to eliminate oil as if we had optimal solar cells and fuel cells cars ready to replace it. I would love to have a Jetson's flying car so I wouldn't have to deal with traffic, but I'm not going to unload my car tommorrow and hope that by Monday somebody develops one.

 

[Bann]

Well there's a lot more we use oil/petroleum by-products for than just fueling our cars, too. Are we going to just give up all the "stuff" that we, as a nation, need/want that comes from oil?

 

[toppick08]

Well there's a lot more we use oil/petroleum by-products for than just fueling our cars, too. Are we going to just give up all the "stuff" that we, as a nation, need/want that comes from oil?

 

[Kerad]

Well there's a lot more we use oil/petroleum by-products for than just fueling our cars, too. Are we going to just give up all the "stuff" that we, as a nation, need/want that comes from oil?

Nope.

America needs to import the majority of our oil for our transportation needs...something around 40%. If we reduce (eventually eliminate) that need, America produces enough oil to cover everything else.

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

Nope.

America needs to import the majority of our oil for our transportation needs...something around 40%. If we reduce (eventually eliminate) that need, America produces enough oil to cover everything else.

So we cut back on driving our personal cars, grow our own food, hunt our own meat, be totally self sufficient so truckers don't have to haul goods and sit and watch television waiting for that alternative energy source to be invented.

Well maybe someone can invent the Star Trek transporter and we'll be energy independent.

 

[Kerad]

So we cut back on driving our personal cars, grow our own food, hunt our own meat, be totally self sufficient so truckers don't have to haul goods and sit and watch television waiting for that alternative energy source to be invented.

Well maybe someone can invent the Star Trek transporter and we'll be energy independent.

The transporter is prolly 100 years away.

But our substantial reduction in gas needs is right around the corner. In the near term, we will always need some sort of transportation gas. But it will be to supplement electric engines (instead of the other way around)...and to power the current generation of cars.

Still...less need.

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

The transporter is prolly 100 years away.

But our substantial reduction in gas needs is right around the corner. In the near term, we will always need some sort of transportation gas. But it will be to supplement electric engines (instead of the other way around)...and to power the current generation of cars.

Still...less need.

How so?

 

[Bann]

Nope.

America needs to import the majority of our oil for our transportation needs...something around 40%. If we reduce (eventually eliminate) that need, America produces enough oil to cover everything else.

Well, that's not going to happen anytime soon either.

 

[Kerad]

How so?

You highlighted the wrong sentence.


Cars are in production that will either be fully electric (like the Tesla roadster) or primarily electric with a small gas tank backup to recharge the electric generator, at a rate of 55 mpg, or more (Chevy Volt).

We're right around the corner on some kickass cars. RIGHT around the corner.

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

You highlighted the wrong sentence.


Cars are in production that will either be fully electric (like the Tesla roadster) or primarily electric with a small gas tank backup to recharge the electric generator, at a rate of 55 mpg, or more (Chevy Volt).

We're right around the corner on some kickass cars. RIGHT around the corner.

I agree those cars are right around the corner. I just don't see that making a large dent in our oil dependence. I could be wrong of course (just ask my wife)! They just don't seem affordable to the average person. How much is that Tesla? I'd go do some research but I'm getting my afternoon jollies by needling Bru.

 

[Kerad]

I agree those cars are right around the corner. I just don't see that making a large dent in our oil dependence. I could be wrong of course (just ask my wife)! They just don't seem affordable to the average person. How much is that Tesla? I'd go do some research but I'm getting my afternoon jollies by needling Bru.

Well, the Tesla is $100,000...today. But the Tesla is the Ferrari of electric cars.


the Volt is looking at around $40,000-ish.

There are/will be cheaper hybrids/electrics that will be available. The sports car varieties are gonna cost more. The initial builds will cost more.


But the technology is catching up.

Soon.


I want a Tesla!

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

I want a Tesla too, maybe the government will give me one as an incentive to save on gas.

So we'll go from using gasoline to using electricity. Good idea. What will power plants utilize to produce power for the increased demand as a result of everyone driving electric cars?


But on the bright side, there will be less pollution and way less noise!

 

[Kerad]

I want a Tesla too, maybe the government will give me one as an incentive to save on gas.

So we'll go from using gasoline to using electricity. Good idea. What will power plants utilize to produce power for the increased demand as a result of everyone driving electric cars?


But on the bright side, there will be less pollution and way less noise!

I didn't know it when I first started this thread, but further research shows that foreign oil is a very samll percentage of our electricity costs. Less than 5%, from what I read.

U.S. Coal is the the big daddy of our energy, and then it flows down to foreign oil being a speck.

As i said earlier...if we significantly reduce/eliminate the need for foreign oil to power our cars....then we win.

And I think we can do this in the next 10 years.

 

[cwo_ghwebb]

I didn't know it when I first started this thread, but further research shows that foreign oil is a very samll percentage of our electricity costs. Less than 5%, from what I read.

U.S. Coal is the the big daddy of our energy, and then it flows down to foreign oil being a speck.

As i said earlier...if we significantly reduce/eliminate the need for foreign oil to power our cars....then we win.

And I think we can do this in the next 10 years.

I sincerely hope you are correct as the government isn't doing anything to address the issue. Sometimes government inaction is the best solution.

 

[Bann]

Well, the Tesla is $100,000...today. But the Tesla is the Ferrari of electric cars.


the Volt is looking at around $40,000-ish.

There are/will be cheaper hybrids/electrics that will be available. The sports car varieties are gonna cost more. The initial builds will cost more.


But the technology is catching up.

Soon.


I want a Tesla!

Pffft. My car is paid for and I like it that way! I'm not financing anything I have to drive that costs $40,000 - even $20,000!!