Media Attacks Trump For A Factual Statement About Law Enforcement And Race

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Media Attacks Trump For A Factual Statement About Law Enforcement And Race

According to Statista, Trump’s statement is true: more white people are killed by police every year in total. In just 2020, 204 white people and 105 black people were fatally shot to death by police in the U.S.

In addition, the FBI data published in the Uniform Crime Report shows that white people are far more likely to be arrested than black people.

“In 2018, 69.0 percent of all individuals arrested were White, 27.4 percent were Black or African American, and 3.6 percent were of other races,” the report reads.

A mathematical breakdown of data collected by multiple sources and published in The Boston Globe shows that the percentage of white people likely to be killed by the police is higher in situations where “white people tend to encounter the police in more grave situations.”
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
You fail to take into account that there are more white people than Black people

do you know the term per capita?
You are introducing elements that aren't there. Fact: in terms of actual numbers, more white people died at the hands of police than black people. The numbers back up this fact. But if Trump had phrased his statement in terms of "per capita", then you would have a valid point.
 

Toxick

Splat
You are introducing elements that aren't there. Fact: in terms of actual numbers, more white people died at the hands of police than black people. The numbers back up this fact. But if Trump had phrased his statement in terms of "per capita", then you would have a valid point.


Actually, if Trump had phrased his statement in terms of "per capita" then Trump would have been wrong.

The fact that Caucasians make up 77% of the population, yet, 204 white people and 105 black people were fatally shot to death by police in the U.S. shows a staggering bias in fatal shootings.


The use of "actual numbers" here is pretty deceptive if you're trying to imply that whites are being unfairly treated.
 

limblips

Well-Known Member
You fail to take into account that there are more white people than Black people

do you know the term per capita?
So in this case you choose per capita. How convenient. Why don't you use it for every statistic you quote. You know, like a standard. The statement is factual.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
You fail to take into account that there are more white people than Black people

According to the FBI database for all arrests:

White - 69%. White people make up 73% of the US population. So the two numbers are pretty close.

Black - 27% Black people make up 12.7% of the US population. WTF?

So why the huge difference? Why are black people arrested at a rate over twice their representative proportion of the US population. Shirley it's not because they commit that many more crimes?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
This is one of the things about statistics - and the media.

If raw numbers don't support your narrative - use percent. If percent doesn't, try raw number.
If neither, try rates - or narrow your source data in terms of years or geography.

There have been a lot of studies on police interaction with the public, and a lot since Rodney King.
There IS a higher proportion of these kinds of conflicts with the police with African Americans - but in most instances, they are in DIRECT proportion to either contact with the police, arrests or crime - and in some studies - actually LESS in proportion to crimes committed.

Keeping THIS in mind - there've been studies seeing if there exists racial motivation among arrests and treatment of suspects - and when all things taken into account - it's been shown there isn't any (assumption is of course made that African American cops aren't guilty of racial bias if they are tougher with other African Americans).

The truth that no one wants to believe - and people are constantly trying to sidestep or excuse - is that crime is disproportionately COMMITTED by African Americans. There are not white cops out there in say, PG County looking for some black kid to arrest, guilty or not.

It IS also true that stops that do not result in an arrest are more likely with African Americans - but for much of the same reason.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
You fail to take into account that there are more white people than Black people

do you know the term per capita?
SO if I use the per capita numbers more black people are killed then white people??? Or does the raw data remain constant and STILL more White people (near twice as many) are killed than black??
 

Toxick

Splat
SO if I use the per capita numbers more black people are killed then white people??? Or does the raw data remain constant and STILL more White people (near twice as many) are killed than black??


You're familiar with the term paltering?

If twice as many white people are gunned down by cops than black people, without context, that sounds like there is an extreme bias against white people by police.

Then you add the fact that, oh by the way, there are 7 times more white people running around out there, you realize that bias isn't as extreme as maybe you thought before you learned that new piece of information.




Consider someone saying this:

The average salary of a worker in 1950 was about $3000/year. (Judging by old TV shows, most people lived pretty darned comfortably back then on that salary)
The average salary of a worker today is about $60,000 year.

Holy ****! Everybody in 2020 is RICH!
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
You're familiar with the term paltering?

If twice as many white people are gunned down by cops than black people, without context, that sounds like there is an extreme bias against white people by police.

Then you add the fact that, oh by the way, there are 7 times more white people running around out there, you realize that bias isn't as extreme as maybe you thought before you learned that new piece of information.




Consider someone saying this:

The average salary of a worker in 1950 was about $3000/year. (Judging by old TV shows, most people lived pretty darned comfortably back then on that salary)
The average salary of a worker today is about $60,000 year.

Holy ****! Everybody in 2020 is RICH!
DOesn't change the facts.. MORE (close to twice as many) white people are killed by police than black..

THEN you have to take in account.. who are they counting as black.. and if we are to all be considered equal, do we separate the two?

IT would have been much more effictive if they came out and said "Police Brutality is a problem, there is nor reason for 300 people to die in the hands of the police every year!"

BUT that wouldn't have fit the Liberal narrative, or helped further divide our country. Bottom line, this has absolutely nothing to do with Black Lives, or Police Brutality, it's simply a narrative to ensure fundamental changes are made to our country to move us further from our heritage, and the founding of our country.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Actually, if Trump had phrased his statement in terms of "per capita" then Trump would have been wrong.

The fact that Caucasians make up 77% of the population, yet, 204 white people and 105 black people were fatally shot to death by police in the U.S. shows a staggering bias in fatal shootings.


The use of "actual numbers" here is pretty deceptive if you're trying to imply that whites are being unfairly treated.

You forget that black people per capita have many more run-ins with the law (fairly or otherwise). They are less likely to be shot per incident, but they are involved in many more incidents.
 

Toxick

Splat
You forget that black people per capita have many more run-ins with the law (fairly or otherwise). They are less likely to be shot per incident, but they are involved in many more incidents.


I didn't forget it. It's simply not important to the point I'm making.


My point, incidentally, isn't that African Americans are unfairly targetted by the police (although I think they are, but it's beside my point), or that Caucasians are unfairly favored by the police (and I don't believe they are, but that's also beside the point). My point is that it is easy to use isolated facts in a such way that is deceptive. And using facts in your deception doesn't change that is still a ****ing deception.

Did Trump lie?

Maybe not - but he certainly didn't project a truthful message.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

― Daniel Patrick Moynihan
 

Toxick

Splat
“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”



Interestingly, that is my point, exactly.
Ignoring or leaving out relevant facts, for instance, is no better than lying. Even if it's technically not a lie.



Bubba weighs 275 pounds is an interesting fact. Everyone that just read that is picturing a big fat redneck slob with a chicken bone hanging out of his food-packed maw.

That Bubba is 6'8" and works out 4 hours a day is an important fact that I left out.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
I didn't forget it. It's simply not important to the point I'm making.


My point, incidentally, isn't that African Americans are unfairly targetted by the police (although I think they are, but it's beside my point), or that Caucasians are unfairly favored by the police (and I don't believe they are, but that's also beside the point). My point is that it is easy to use isolated facts in a such way that is deceptive. And using facts in your deception doesn't change that is still a ****ing deception.

Did Trump lie?

Maybe not - but he certainly didn't project a truthful message.


But my point is salient here. The impression his facts are trying to convey are that the police are more of a danger to white people than they are to black people. And the evidence supports this on a per-incident basis.
 

Toxick

Splat
The impression his facts are trying to convey are that the police are more of a danger to white people than they are to black people. And the evidence supports this on a per-incident basis.

That's the takeaway that was intended, no doubt.

But since I'm studied during my 'rithmatic class, I have a completely different takeaway.



Let's say there are 1000 people in a room (big room), and 700 of those people are white, and 300 are black (I'll leave out other races for simplicity). Suddenly, police are released among the group to go around slapping the **** out of people because, reasons.

First day 300 people are smacked right the **** in the mouth.
200 of those people are white, and 100 of them are black.

WTF - more white people got slapped!?


However, If I'm a black guy, I'd be pretty goddam worried about my chances the next day.
If I'm white, maybe not so much.

Yeah - more white people got jaw-jacked in raw numbers, but the pool from which I'm likely to be chosen for a slap is WAY bigger and therefore I'm, personally, in less danger. The black individual has a higher probability of getting slapped than the white individual.

That is relevant info.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
So take your statistics to the next step.. for every 100,000 interactions with the police, what are the chances a white person will get shot, what are the chances a black person will get shot??

Do we break it down further, to every 100,000 traffic stops?? Or every 100,000 felony arrests.. sooner or later you'll get to stat that supports your argument, and you'll keep fishing, and keep digging deeper until you get there.

But in the end, more whites still die in police custody than blacks.
 
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