Men's Marriage Strike?

bknarw

Attire Monitor
Have Anti-Father Family Court Policies Led to a Men's Marriage Strike?
By Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson

Kathleen is attractive, successful, witty, and educated. She also can't find a husband. Why? Because most of the men this thirty-something software analyst dates do not want to get married. These men have Peter Pan Syndrome--they refuse to commit, refuse to settle down, and refuse to "grow up."

However, given the family court policies and divorce trends of today, Peter Pan is no naive boy, but instead a wise man. "Why should I get married and have kids when I could lose those kids and most of what I've worked for at a moment's notice?" asks Dan, a 31 year-old power plant technician who says he will never marry. "I've seen it happen to many of my friends. I know guys who came home one day to an empty house or apartment--wife gone, kids gone. They never saw it coming. Some of them were never able to see their kids regularly again."

The US marriage rate has dipped 40% over the past four decades, to its lowest point ever. There are many plausible explanations for this trend, but one of the least mentioned is that American men, in the face of a family court system which is hopelessly stacked against them, have subconsciously launched a "marriage strike."

It is not difficult to see why. Let's say that Dan defies Peter Pan, marries Katherine, and has two children. There is a 50% likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, and if it does the odds are two to one that it will be Katherine, not Dan, who initiates the divorce. It may not matter that Dan was a decent husband--studies show that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

While the courts may grant Dan and Katherine joint legal custody, the odds are overwhelming that it is Katherine, not Dan, who will win physical custody. Over night Dan, accustomed to seeing his kids every day and being an integral part of their lives, will become a "14 percent dad"--a father who is allowed to spend only one out of every 7 days with his own children.

Once divorced, odds are at least even that Dan's ex-wife will interfere with his visitation rights. Three-quarters of divorced men surveyed say their ex-wives have interfered with their visitation, and 40% of mothers studied admitted that they had done so, and that they had generally acted out of spite or in order to punish their exes. Katherine will keep the house and most of the couple's assets. Dan will need to set up a new residence and pay at least a third of his take home pay to Katherine in child support.

As bad as all of this is, it would still make Dan one of the lucky ones. After all, he could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his ex has made a false accusation of domestic violence, child abuse, or child molestation. Or a father who can only see his own children under supervised visitation or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are treated like criminals.

He could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds or thousands of miles away, in violation of court orders which courts often do not enforce. He could be one of those fathers who tears up his life and career again and again in order to follow his children, only to have his ex-wife continually move them.

He could be one of the fathers who has lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffered a disabling injury, only to have child support arrearages and interest pile up to create a mountain of debt which he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is forced to pay 70% or 80% of his income in child support because the court has imputed an unrealistic income to him. Or a dad who suffers from one of the child support enforcement system's endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed because he cannot keep up with his payments. Or a dad who reaches old age impoverished because he lost everything he had in a divorce when he was middle-aged and did not have the time and the opportunity to earn it back.

"It's a shame," Dan says. "I always wanted to be a father and have a family. But unless the laws change and give fathers the same right to be a part of their children's lives as mothers have, it just isn't worth the risk."

This article originally appeared in the Philadelphia Inquirer on July 5, 2002
www.GlennSacks.com
 
B

Beach Patrol

Guest
Could it BE?!?!?!?
......


that Dan = bknarw???????



Things that make you go Hhhhhmmmmmmm....:p
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
Originally posted by Beach Patrol
Could it BE?!?!?!?
......


that Dan = bknarw???????



Things that make you go Hhhhhmmmmmmm....:p

Nope...just stole it from him.
:D
And, I personally don't believe any of it.
It's the women who are noncommital nowadays!
 

Lilly

The Original Lilly
I truly do feel bad for men today - often times this happens because the woman simply becomes "bored" with the marriage.

However, I know a number of single dads who have real joint custody in which the child switches homes weekly - because of this arrangement no child support is paid other than reimbursing the parent who carries the health insurance, etc. I wonder why more dads have a hard time getting this type of arrangement if there is really no abuse involved? Maybe because it is too unsettling for the kids? Anybody have an experience like this?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I wonder why more dads have a hard time getting this type of arrangement if there is really no abuse involved?
The simple answer would be because they don't want it. But that's just been my experience, from mine AND my husband's previous divorces and child custody arrangements.

A friend of mine has an every other day arrangement with her ex. Their daughter spends one day with Dad, the next with Mom, etc. They live close enough to each other that school isn't a problem and the kid has a full set of stuff at each house so no bag-packing. This has been going on since the daughter was 2 or so and she's now 10 or 11 - and a very well-adjusted, happy, normal kid with no social problems or weird insecurities.
 

Lilly

The Original Lilly
Originally posted by vraiblonde
The simple answer would be because they don't want it.

. . . don't want it for the health of the kid or for selfish reasons??

That has been my experience as well. I know two single fathers and one single mother who have this type of custody arrangement and all 3 kids seem happy enough to me. I mean there are small problems like getting in a fight with one parent and demanding to see the other immediately. But as long as both parents work together, set similar ground rules, uphold one another's punishments (i.e. - kid is grounded at Daddy's -not just Mommy's) and actually communicate with eachother then it seems to work fine.
I know another couple who allow thier 13 year old daughter to simply stay wherever she pleases with no real structure. The girl drifts back and forth depending on whomever she is more in trouble with at the time and is often left unaccounted for. That is a bad situation!
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
I hate to bust the stereotype, but...

I adopted my wife's son when he was two. The marriage lasted two years, but my friendship and relationship with him has persisted ever since.
He's 18 now, and we just spent our vacation together at the beach.
When his mom went psycho (was it the second or the third time?) I fought like hell because her parents wanted to take him away.
I don't believe that all men are reluctant, or even most of them. However, it's hard as hell to take a kid away from his mom.
When I went to an attorney about it once, he told me the story of the mother who was turning tricks in her apartment while the kids were there.
Their father took her to court for custody and the judge turned him down.
 

AnonymousPenguin

Lead Penguin
men and women should just be banned from living together...
no wait... change that "living together" to "being within 5 feet of each other"... :p :duh: :twitch: :lol:

excuse me... I'm having a "I hate men" day....:mad: :burning:
maybe tomorrow will be a "I love men" day...:kiss: ...who knows...


*runs to the nearest exit before bk comes in here*
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
HEY!!!

Originally posted by AnonymousPenguin
men and women should just be banned from living together...
no wait... change that "living together" to "being within 5 feet of each other"... :p :duh: :twitch: :lol:

excuse me... I'm having a "I hate men" day....:mad: :burning:
maybe tomorrow will be a "I love men" day...:kiss: ...who knows...


*runs to the nearest exit before bk comes in here*


COME BACK HERE YOUNG LADY!!!
:D
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Re: I hate to bust the stereotype, but...

Originally posted by bknarw
I don't believe that all men are reluctant, or even most of them. However, it's hard as hell to take a kid away from his mom.
I wasn't trying to stereotype men - women do it too. It's not that hard for men to get custody - they just have to want it. My husband got custody of his two daughters with no problem. And their Mom isn't even a slut or drug addict! She's a perfectly fine person.
 

Lilly

The Original Lilly
While I agree that it is probably harder for a man to get full custody than a woman - I don't think that any court would turn down a man's plea for partial custody if he was a decent human being.

The part about women interfering with custody is the part I have sympathy for. I have seen a lot of fights over custody that have nothing to do with anything but jealousy over someones new partner. And unfortunately I have to say that woman are probably more prone to this than men. I guess its our insecure nature.
 

migtig

aka Mrs. Giant
I don't think it's that hard for a man to get custody of his children - my father did it - way back in the day - and in the South and in the Bible Belt - hmmmm, so I think it really depends on whether or not your kids are worth the trouble to you - as a father or as a mother.
Secondly, the marriage thing is (IMO) that we, as a nation, aren't getting married right out of school anymore to our high chool sweethearts....so by the time we are thinking hmm I have a home and job and am secure, so it sure would be nice to find some man or woman and raise me some young'ens - that the person feeling that way projects an air of desperateness (sp?) of great need and demand which totally sends the other person packing in the opposite direction - unless they too are at that pivotal point in their lives. Whereas when you get married to your high school honey you just know it will be happily ever after LOL
My last tirade - if you are sooo worried about somebody taking something away from you (especially before you ever have it - ie children) then you shouldn't be with a person you trust so little anyway. If you are a pragmatist, well then get a prenup. Afterall we are all adults and we know that happily ever after doesn't always happen....
 
B

Beach Patrol

Guest
But, don't you all think that people get divorced for way too many silly reasons these days? I mean, I know there is the abuse thing & the adultry thing - that's pretty much a given - especially abuse - I don't think anyone should ever stay in a dangerous marriage. But what about those who 'just get bored' or those who 'don't understand me anymore' or those who 'want to try something different' - etc.

I've understood that the MAIN reason for the majority of divorces in America revolves around MONEY. That's right - the almighty $$$$.

I think that most people simply don't take their marriage VOWS very seriously. They don't really think about sickness AND IN health, richer OR FOR poorer, etc. They just don't really want to go there. It's easier to divorce than to stick it out with someone who just lost their job & found out they have cancer & now doesn't have the insurance to cover treatment so all the money is gone & the house is a mess & the kids are acting up and HEY - was that lipstick on your collar? blah-blah-blah. I really think that the whole idea of people sticking with it through thick or thin has gone by the wayside.

Sad.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by Beach Patrol
But, don't you all think that people get divorced for way too many silly reasons these days?

I think people get marriedfor too many silly reasons.

I've understood that the MAIN reason for the majority of divorces in America revolves around MONEY. That's right - the almighty $$$$.

Many marriages revolve around money, too. Just ask Donald Trump :lol:

As for the rest of your post - ain't that the truth?
 

NATA'S MOMMY

New Member
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to announce......and any decent guys reading this please forgive me.....I am having a man hating month. 5 weeks ago my husband of 4 yrs turned 21. Since the week after his birthday.....he hasn't come home, he is sleeping w/ anything that has the equipment, he has called me everything bad he can think of, moved out, hasn't seen his kids in the last 4 weeks, calls me and tells me he's sorry, he loves me and wants to come home, then tells me I am the biggest B that he has ever met, and most recently broke into my house at 2:00 in the morning threatening to beat my A**. All of this totally out of the clear blue sky. He just didn't come home one weekend and when he finally did show up he told me that he was bored. He didn't love me anymore, and didn't want me or the kids.

He has tried to turn this around to be my fault, although I never once asked him to move out......even after he told me about the other women. I wouldn't sleep w/ him, but I didn't tell him to leave.

I know not all guys are horrible jerks like this, but where are they at? And why is ok for a guy to do this, but it's not for a woman?
(Friends of ours are going through the same situation, just reversal, she did this to him. Yet the husband sees no problem in what my husband is doing) Just wondering why. Sorry this is so long, just needed to vent.
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
They just recently published information about women who are so busy now seeking a career for themselves that they suddenly come to in their late 30's and realize that they didn't give themselves the opportunity to have a child and family, and by then it's too late.
I'm all for women doing whatever they want, but I've had the unfortunate history of meeting too many women who hadn't reached the "sudden awakening" stage yet!
 

Guest

Member
I am going to put my two cents in for what its worth. I really do think that if a man wants custody of his kids bad enough then he will do anything to do so. As long as the truth is told. The laws for marriage, custody, and child support need to change along with some others ones but that is another subject.
I have a son that is 6 years old that I had out of wed-lock. (Just one of my early childhood doings.) He doesn't even know who his father is. His real father choose a life of crime over his son and needless to say I left him and raise my son on my own for 5 years. He has a record a mile long and as long as I am living he will never see him. Out of those years that he served time he wrote his son letters about a hand full of times. I let him have contact with him one time and need less to say he choose the drug life over his son. He is out once again has already put a ring on a girls finger and the girl has brain washed him. She told him that he needed to fight for visitation rights or custody of my son along with the other two that he has by two different women. He called me up a couple of months ago telling me that if I didn't let him see my son that he was going to take me to court and fight me for visitation. I pretty much told him off and hung-up. I haven't gotten anything in the mail yet so I guess he can't his mind.
It is father's like this that just pi$$ me off. They think that they can come back into a child's life after years have gone by and expect to see there child/children. And then it always goes back to the money. I am not going to pay you child support if I can't see my son. Well I am sorry but do you really think that $200.00 dollars a month child support check pays for half of what I have to pay for?? That $200.00 does not go into my pocket. I am the providing the care for him, the roof over his head, clothes on his back and food in his stomach. I think that alot of father don't understand the child support thing. I think that they look at it as a gift that they are giving to the mother of there child/children. I just found out that one of the mothers of one of his other kids get more in child support than I do. Like $200.00 more. My son was born first and he has back child support also that he owes me. But because she make more than I do she gets more. Does that make sense to anyone???
So yeah if a father wants custody of his child bad enough it will happen. As far as the father of my son I guess he just had better things to do.
My husband is the one that he calls Daddy. He has not adopted him yet because we have been married for only a year and wanted to wait at least a couple more years to do so. (Just didn't want the judge or however to bring up the fact we have only been married a short time.)

Sorry about going on and on and on. But sometimes you just have to let is loose.
 

migtig

aka Mrs. Giant
I'll say this (LOL) if Mr. Wonderful had ever come along and swept me off my feet, I would have been estatic to be a wife, mother and homemaker, instead Mr. Wonderful got lost trying to find me and I have had to feed and support myself - which can be hard at times, so I never had the child or any of the other stuff either. Career wasn't what I wanted, but it is what I got. And I wasn't going to settle for just any man instead of Mr. Wonderful. Oh well....life is all about compromises.
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
Originally posted by migtig
I'll say this (LOL) if Mr. Wonderful had ever come along and swept me off my feet, I would have been estatic to be a wife, mother and homemaker, instead Mr. Wonderful got lost trying to find me and I have had to feed and support myself - which can be hard at times, so I never had the child or any of the other stuff either. Career wasn't what I wanted, but it is what I got. And I wasn't going to settle for just any man instead of Mr. Wonderful. Oh well....life is all about compromises.


I'm right here!


Signed,
"Mr. Wonderful"
:D
 
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