Monuments/Idols/Tolerance

[onel0126]

For those with short attention spans, this article may not be for you.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/4023/Monument_Idols_and_Tolerance.aspx

 

[hotcoffee]

Taken from the article....

Closer to home, we have the case of St. Louis University’s removal of a missionary statue of Father De Smet because some students and faculty, with little sense of the actual history of the man, “felt” it was racist or offensive. The principle at work seems to be that nothing that is “felt” to be offensive by anyone can be seen in public. If we universalize this principle, any Christian missionary effort is over. Someone is always going to feel and complain. Universities themselves are now filled with amazing prohibitions of speech that prevent talk of many “incorrect” things, an ever changing list.


“What exactly is going on here?” we might ask. We are, I think, beyond the question of “tolerance”. Tolerance usually arose when sides were equally exhausted or matched so that what someone else held was allowed to continue. Most cities of the world, especially capital cities, are filled with buildings, statues, and monuments that are designed to depict what the country stands for. In this sense they are “public” monuments. Sometimes “private” monuments are allowed.

It's a good article. It is a good commentary on the news of this week. IMHO

 

[Chuckt]

For those with short attention spans, this article may not be for you.

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/4023/Monument_Idols_and_Tolerance.aspx

One question is why you shouldn't allow idols in your life? I mean, what is the difference between a non-idol or an idol taking away your time and affection from God?

The question is, "Why should we allow objects or people that are loved more than God to take the place or our attention from God?"

When you look at it that way, rock stars are idols. People are idols. What justification do I have when I give $25 dollars to go to an Elton John concert but not put $25 dollars in the offering for God? Your statues have become your idols.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Lexicon Results
Strong's G1497 - eidōlon
εἴδωλον

Root Word (Etymology)
From εἶδος (G1491); an image (i.e. for worship)

Outline of Biblical Usage
an image, likeness

i.e. whatever represents the form of an object, either real or imaginary

used of the shades of the departed, apparitions, spectres, phantoms of the mind, etc.

the image of an heathen god

a false god

http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1497&t=KJV

An apparition like mary would qualify under this definition.

 

[Chuckt]

One question is why you shouldn't allow idols in your life? I mean, what is the difference between a non-idol or an idol taking away your time and affection from God?

The question is, "Why should we allow objects or people that are loved more than God to take the place or our attention from God?"

When you look at it that way, rock stars are idols. People are idols. What justification do I have when I give $25 dollars to go to an Elton John concert but not put $25 dollars in the offering for God? Your statues have become your idols.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.



http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1497&t=KJV

An apparition like mary would qualify under this definition.

If I give to God, it is an act of devotion but when there are idols involved, somehow people deny it is an idol or that they aren't devoted more to the statues to God.
Another example would be the Greek or Roman gods. Greek or Roman gods were localized and also could only be in one place at a time. What is the difference between that definition of gods and statues in Catholicism?
Dionysis was a god of wine and pleasure. Athena was the goddess of wisdom, courage, etc. When we have statues, are they really different from wisdom, pleasure, etc? You just call them something else but they are gods like the order they are in Greek mythology.

 

[stgislander]

Would you consider images in stained glass windows idols as well?

 

[Chuckt]

Would you consider images in stained glass windows idols as well?

It is problematic for me. On one hand, some churches have Jesus praying on a rock with a light from heaven shining down on him. In the sense of telling a story, I wouldn't have a problem per say as a story but I wouldn't worship it.
On one hand, Jesus isn't an idol because He is God incarnate. The problem is, "where do you draw the line?"

My grandmother had those beautiful pictures of Jesus. The problem is that we are not sure what Jesus looks like so we could be misrepresenting Him.
I'm not really in favor of representations with the exception that maybe it tells a story and brings glory to the true God.

The house I was looking buying had a statue on the property and the seller or someone at a yard sale stole it by selling it out from under me. I'm kind of glad it was stolen because if your idols can be stolen then you have the wrong idols.

 

[hotcoffee]

Chuckt.... didn't you read the article?

There is so much more in the article that you obviously missed.

Why are you squabbling over Mary when last night people gave a man a award for bravery when all he did was change into a woman?

Why are you squabbling over stained glass depictions when Planned Parenthood has admitted that they are selling baby body parts to labs in order to cover the cost of processing fees?

What are you thinking? Stop bashing churches.... start showing the Love of Jesus.

 

[Chuckt]

Chuckt.... didn't you read the article?

There is so much more in the article that you obviously missed.

Why are you squabbling over Mary when last night people gave a man a award for bravery when all he did was change into a woman?

Why are you squabbling over stained glass depictions when Planned Parenthood has admitted that they are selling baby body parts to labs in order to cover the cost of processing fees?

What are you thinking? Stop bashing churches.... start showing the Love of Jesus.

Because judgment begins at the house of God. Do you agree with the Bible on that?

http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-17.htm

Second, because the Bible says we don't judge those without:

King James Bible
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/5-12.htm

And thirdly, it is because Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones said that the world is the way they are because we are the way we are.

The world will only change when the light comes on and the light will only come on when the Church repents which includes you and I. If they are born again, the light will come on and they will learn to change on their own but if the light doesn't come on, you can keep beating the darkness to change and it won't change because there is no light.

 

[Chuckt]

Chuckt.... didn't you read the article?

There is so much more in the article that you obviously missed.

Why are you squabbling over Mary when last night people gave a man a award for bravery when all he did was change into a woman?

Why are you squabbling over stained glass depictions when Planned Parenthood has admitted that they are selling baby body parts to labs in order to cover the cost of processing fees?

What are you thinking? Stop bashing churches.... start showing the Love of Jesus.

When you center on Bruce or Planned Parenthood, are you showing the love of Jesus?
Or is it the first Church of the Open Fist? Come on in, we will judge you up and down. It will work, right?

How do you get a dead man to respond? By bashing him?
No. You need to bring light. In other words, if they respond to the gospel, they come alive and if they don't, they stay dead. If you try to clean up the world, the dead man is still unsaved. If you save the dead man, he cleans up himself.

That is why your church needs to repent.

 

[GURPS]

Second, because the Bible says we don't judge those without:

King James Bible
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

awesome ... so critical thinking skills go out the window, and you leave hookers at the entrance to the high school ... because after all one cannot legislate morality

 

[Chuckt]

awesome ... so critical thinking skills go out the window, and you leave hookers at the entrance to the high school ... because after all one cannot legislate morality

You can legislate morality because it works in Muslim countries. You do the wrong then and then you're in trouble.

 

[hotcoffee]

When you center on Bruce or Planned Parenthood, are you showing the love of Jesus?
Or is it the first Church of the Open Fist? Come on in, we will judge you up and down. It will work, right?

How do you get a dead man to respond? By bashing him?
No. You need to bring light. In other words, if they respond to the gospel, they come alive and if they don't, they stay dead. If you try to clean up the world, the dead man is still unsaved. If you save the dead man, he cleans up himself.

That is why your church needs to repent.

For the past several weeks some of us have been reading the Book of Daniel and the Book of Matthew starting with the last week before the crucifixion.

We should have learned by now that allowing a corrupt government to control Christians, we are not doing the work of God.

So when the church talks about the corruption all around us, some bash the church.

Abortion is murder. Giving an award for courage to a transsexual while not allowing the Ten Commandments or the Nativity to be displayed in public is corrupt.

So go on bashing the church chuckt.... and rave about how you know all about God....

You didn't answer the question.... Did you even read the article?

Oh and by the way... I don't go to a brick & mortar church.... but I do consider myself Protestant.... still your comments about Mary were not, in my opinion, appropriate in response to the article posted for discussion in this thread.

 

[hotcoffee]

Taken from the article....

Closer to home, we have the case of St. Louis University’s removal of a missionary statue of Father De Smet because some students and faculty, with little sense of the actual history of the man, “felt” it was racist or offensive. The principle at work seems to be that nothing that is “felt” to be offensive by anyone can be seen in public. If we universalize this principle, any Christian missionary effort is over. Someone is always going to feel and complain. Universities themselves are now filled with amazing prohibitions of speech that prevent talk of many “incorrect” things, an ever changing list.


“What exactly is going on here?” we might ask. We are, I think, beyond the question of “tolerance”. Tolerance usually arose when sides were equally exhausted or matched so that what someone else held was allowed to continue. Most cities of the world, especially capital cities, are filled with buildings, statues, and monuments that are designed to depict what the country stands for. In this sense they are “public” monuments. Sometimes “private” monuments are allowed.

It's a good article. It is a good commentary on the news of this week. IMHO

This is what I think the article is about .... chuckt.... not Mary....