Navy giving the Rebel Flag the boot from bases

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
Message from the CNO

Today, I directed my staff to begin crafting an order that would prohibit the Confederate battle flag from all public spaces and work areas aboard Navy installations, ships, aircraft and submarines. The order is meant to ensure unit cohesion, preserve good order and discipline, and uphold the Navy’s core values of honor, courage and commitment.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
But, but, I need to be able to display this symbol of a war my ancestor's lost to reassure me that being a loser is okay!
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
But, but, I need to be able to display this symbol of a war my ancestor's lost to reassure me that being a loser is okay!

Beat me to it.

There's a rather rousing thread on here somewhere and my opinion of the Confederate flag is well defined.
 

PrchJrkr

Long Haired Country Boy
Ad Free Experience
Patron
He's the CNO, it's his playground. :sshrug:
I can understand the reasoning not to fly it on US installations and vessels. The navy is made up of individuals that come together for the common cause. They shouldn't display a symbol that can be hurtful to many of it's members. On the other hand, family history in the south, is a big part of who your descendants were. If you had a relative that fought with honor on the losing side and you want to display the stars and bars in your yard, no one should have a damned thing to say about it. Slavery was the norm and acceptable at the time, now it isn't. Sh!t happens, but we shouldn't be forced to forget history. Your feelings don't overrule mine...
 

DaSDGuy

Well-Known Member
Where is the CNO order banning kneeling during the National Anthem for all of us who have fought under, and had friends and family die for, the American flag?
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
On the other hand, family history in the south, is a big part of who your descendants were. If you had a relative that fought with honor on the losing side and you want to display the stars and bars in your yard, no one should have a damned thing to say about it. Slavery was the norm and acceptable at the time, now it isn't. Sh!t happens, but we shouldn't be forced to forget history. Your feelings don't overrule mine...

That. I've never personally felt the need to display, or even own, any version of a CSA flag, but I certainly understand the pride some families have in the service of their southern ancestors.

But there are also plenty of idiots running around with CSA flags on their trucks that are only doing that because they think its cool and edgy..
 

terbear1225

Well-Known Member
He's the CNO, it's his playground. :sshrug:
I can understand the reasoning not to fly it on US installations and vessels. The navy is made up of individuals that come together for the common cause. They shouldn't display a symbol that can be hurtful to many of it's members. On the other hand, family history in the south, is a big part of who your descendants were. If you had a relative that fought with honor on the losing side and you want to display the stars and bars in your yard, no one should have a damned thing to say about it. Slavery was the norm and acceptable at the time, now it isn't. Sh!t happens, but we shouldn't be forced to forget history. Your feelings don't overrule mine...

While I tend to agree with you that you have the right to display what you like in your own front yard, if your yard happens to be on a military base, you lose that option.
 

PrchJrkr

Long Haired Country Boy
Ad Free Experience
Patron
While I tend to agree with you that you have the right to display what you like in your own front yard, if your yard happens to be on a military base, you lose that option.
I hadn't thought of that. I suppose if you feel that strongly about it, you move off base.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
I get the historical aspect of the Stars and Bars. But when all is said and done it's a repugnant symbol. And while I get the fact that many who served in the Confederacy's military were simply defending their home soil the cause for which they fought was morally bankrupt.

I feel the same way about WWII German army related things. Sorry, folks, you may have thought you were fighting for Germany, but you were actually fighting for the morally bankrupt Nazi regime. (So in one respect, I get the Antifa position; that they claim they're fighting against modern-day Nazis. But that position is equally flawed as the German antifascist league they take their cues from was under the control of the equally morally bankrupt regime in Moscow.)*

What's interesting is how much push-back I received over the years about all three (the Confederacy, Germany, & the Soviet Union). The Confederate and German armies were "cool" because they both had some really talented generals. But I could never get my point across that while one can respect the military acumen of these generals, that respect for the military art shouldn't come across as hitting the "like" button for the regimes they operated under. I respect Lee, Rommel, and Zhukov (for example) as generals, but they were still wrong in the main thing and don't get an ounce of credit from me for their political choice.

Which leads me to the Army (and possibly Air Force) fort/base names. There's another thing I have never understood. Yes, to rally the troops during WWI these bases were named for Southern "heroes" and the Army had a long tradition of naming forts after notable folks. But it was a really flawed choice/tradition in this case. It would have been much better if the Army/Air Force did what the Navy & USMC do: names designating bases from geography.

Finally, Juan Williams had an excellent point today on The Five that speaks to the flaw here: without even mentioning slavery, he asked why would we want to name bases after folks who fought to dissolve the Union? An excellent take. And they were losers!

So maybe this might not be a popular opinion in some circles, but here it is: I don't like the Stars and Bars, the Swastika, or the Hammer & Sickle. Not a fan of the Rising Sun and the PRC "yellow stars on red background," either. But I do love me them Stars & Stripes and I would hope others do as well.

EDIT (post- @UglyBear "like"): I get it; history is complicated and we shouldn't apply modern standards to past events. I agree. But still, we can (and should) correct obvious errors. It shouldn't have gotten to the point where changes are being made as a result from pressure by the mob. Because we've then (a) lost the moral high ground and (b) emboldened the mob.

*To be fair, what went on in Germany & Austria in the Inter-War Years (especially, the Austrian Anschluss) is a fascinating and heart-breaking study in having to figure out the lesser of two evils.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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UglyBear

Well-Known Member
I get the historical aspect of the Stars and Bars. But when all is said and done it's a repugnant symbol. And while I get the fact that many who served in the Confederacy's military were simply defending their home soil the cause for which they fought was morally bankrupt.

So maybe this might not be a popular opinion in some circles, but here it is: I don't like the Stars and Bars, the Swastika, or the Hammer & Sickle. Not a fan of the Rising Sun and the "yellow stars on red background," either. But I do love me them Stars & Stripes and I would hope others do as well.

--- End of line (MCP)
Sir, your ability to cut through layers and tangles of complicated issue and provide a single, clear , morally sound position is why I deeply respect and admire you.
I have ummm... complicated? Feelings about two of those flags (sickle and hammer — generations of my ancestors honestly and valiantly fought under it, to protect their home and create, what they were led to honestly believe, a better world; and CSA flag, under which mah kin by marriage did the same).
Despite all my personal musings, I can’t disagree with you — :patriot: and that’s it.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
This essay can't be snipped easily (if at all). But if you have 5-10 mins (depending on your reading speed/style) I think you will find it rewarding.


The title speaks to what I was trying to say here (that we should want to be/have a "grander Army of the Republic"*):
Which leads me to the Army (and possibly Air Force) fort/base names. There's another thing I have never understood. Yes, to rally the troops during WWI these bases were named for Southern "heroes" and the Army had a long tradition of naming forts after notable folks. But it was a really flawed choice/tradition in this case. It would have been much better if the Army/Air Force did what the Navy & USMC do: names designating bases from geography.

*A play on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic

--- End of line (MCP)
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Except for Robinson and Ridgeway, they seem like sound choices
I think I understand why you would think that about Robinson (i.e., not well-known nationally?), but why not Ridgeway?

If you have time/interest, I'm curious as to your thoughts.

Cheers.

--- End of line (MCP)
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I think I understand why you would think that about Robinson (i.e., not well-known nationally?), but why not Ridgeway?


Robinson and Ridgeway may have been fine leaders but against the back drop of the others [ well Moore did not win the CMH either he did get the DSC] but this guy:

Master Sgt. Roy P. Benavidez

Wow ..

IMHO - Forts / Bases should be named after Die Hard Hero's like Murphy, Desmond Doss ...
 
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