New "Air Force One" Updates

[Yooper]

If there is a story that is sure to attract the attention and vitriol of certain esteemed members of this forum, this just might be it.

The total cost of the two Air Force One jets "delivered" is expected to be almost as much (according to these articles) as a Nimitz aircraft carrier!

That's $5.3 BILLION for two jets. Well, not quite (and this is why I'd be interested to see how the costs are sort out). Turns out that the Air Force has to build a completely new hanger for the jets because this new 747-body is just a bit too big for the current Air Force One hanger. Given all the security measures the hanger requires this can't be a cheap build. But how much of the $5.3 billion is facility construction costs...?

Trump made the claim that Boeing offered a better deal by using previously-built airframes, but I wonder. As one of the articles points out the aircraft have to be substantially rewired (among other things) so the cost savings just might not be there. Or would they be? Given that this is just a "2-off build," what would this project have cost had these aircraft been purpose-built from the ground up.

Rather than snip the articles (there's just too much "good stuff" to snip), here are the links. The Drive generally does a good job of reporting, but there is often a political bias when reporting on issues that have a political angle (I'll leave it to others to determine which way the bias goes, if any).

Links:
"The Two Sort Of New Air Force One Jets Now To Cost Nearly The Price Of A Nimitz Class Carrier"

"Check Out The Future Air Force One 747 As It Leaves California To Begin Modification In Texas"

Would be interested in commentary (especially from those associated with aviation issues/projects, Air Force folks, etc.). If you want to use this story as an opportunity to rant, have at it. Just be prepared for the return ground stroke....

(And oh, if it's not too much to ask, please give a bit of background so we can gauge how informed your opinion is. Otherwise, I will consider whatever's posted as just interested reader/observer opinion.)

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Clark is building the new hangar for $315.5 million (assuming they use all the options in the contract).

Clark Construction has been awarded a contract potentially worth $315.5 million to build a new hangar in Prince George’s County for the new Air Force One.

The two planes will be $3.9 billion per the agreement in July.

The Pentagon has confirmed that Boeing is to receive $3.9 billion to build two new aircraft for use as Air Force One planes to serve the U.S. president

 

[Yooper]

Clark is building the new hangar for $315.5 million (assuming they use all the options in the contract).


The two planes will be $3.9 billion per the agreement in July.

Appreciate the update. Wonder, then, why The Drive is reporting this as so much more expensive (about 50% more expensive)? Different accounting takes...?

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Appreciate the update. Wonder, then, why The Drive is reporting this as so much more expensive (about 50% more expensive)? Different accounting takes...?

--- End of line (MCP)

Normally I'd say it's because most govt. projects have cost overruns in that general range.
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/tbb-72.pdf

In this case, the contract is a firm fixed price, so Boeing is on the hook for any cost overruns.

 

[Yooper]

In this case, the contract is a firm fixed price, so Boeing is on the hook for any cost overruns.

Probably wouldn't be smart to hold one's breath expecting this to hold firm. (Pardon the accompanying rimshot.) Wonder what odds Vegas would give that it stays so. And if we were to play "over-under," I'll take the "over."

--- End of line (MCP)

 

[StadEMS3]

I'm sure it will run over budget as with any government contracts. The AF and WH will change its mind a ton of times on specs driving up engineering/testing/certification costs. Then they are also going to need all the support equipment/spare parts (both off the self and specialized) on hand as well as all the training. The 2 747's being used were basically shells from a contract that fell through, so any additional wiring for systems will not be as cost crazy as turning previously in-service commercial aircraft into a VIP transport like the some of the old 707's and 757's. Yes. it will be VERY expensive, but it is needed, the current airframes the VC-25's are based on are no longer in production, parts are getting hard to find, and many of the systems are 80's tech at best. These jets will be for whoever is leading the most powerful nation in the world and should be the best in technology for them to be able to lead from the "Flying White House" (I'm a retired AF1 Flying Crew Chief )

 

[GURPS]

the current airframes the VC-25's are based on are no longer in production, parts are getting hard to find, and many of the systems are 80's tech at best.

I would think the boneyard is full of 747's

 

[Hijinx]

The cost is high of course, but why blame this on Trump.?
The fact is that the planes are needed and he is ordering them for every President from himself on.
I am sure that the costly parts are in communications and security for the plane.
Trump if not elected in 2020 will probably never get a ride on these planes.

The contracts and features on these planes are not up to Trump but to those who design and plan for the President whoever that President may be.

In other words it's not like the President is ordering this plane for himself.

 

[StadEMS3]

I would think the boneyard is full of 747's

We've gotten parts off them and museum jets for the VIP fleet.

 

[vraiblonde]

I have a question about what this has to do with Trump. Can Presidents just go, "Hey, we need a new AF1, and btw a new hangar as well"?

That's a real question.

I though that Congress spends the money, not the President, and I also didn't realize a President would be so intricately involved in the mechanical things. I figured whoever is in charge of that stuff would make the request.

 

[AnthonyJames]

The cost is high of course, but why blame this on Trump.?
The fact is that the planes are needed and he is ordering them for every President from himself on.
I am sure that the costly parts are in communications and security for the plane.
Trump if not elected in 2020 will probably never get a ride on these planes.

The contracts and features on these planes are not up to Trump but to those who design and plan for the President whoever that President may be.

In other words it's not like the President is ordering this plane for himself.

On a somewhat related theme, how long are these planes expected to be in service? Anyone?

 

[Monello]

AF1 was upgraded on 1/20/17. An incredible improvement over the previous version.

 

[awpitt]

The total cost of the two Air Force One jets "delivered" is expected to be almost as much (according to these articles) as a Nimitz aircraft carrier!

That's $5.3 BILLION for two jets.

A Nimitz class aircraft carrier cost roughly $8.5 billion.

 

[StadEMS3]

AF1 was upgraded on 1/20/17. An incredible improvement over the previous version.

The current 747's have been in service since 1990, over the years they do get systems upgrades, such as a huge one after 9/11, but the bones are old, 30yrs old. There are "other" newer jets from your time period but they do not meet the requirements that the 747 has.

 

[awpitt]

I have a question about what this has to do with Trump. Can Presidents just go, "Hey, we need a new AF1, and btw a new hangar as well"?

That's a real question.

I though that Congress spends the money, not the President, and I also didn't realize a President would be so intricately involved in the mechanical things. I figured whoever is in charge of that stuff would make the request.

It's more of a situation where the Air Force decides that it's time for new hardware. Just as they do with any aircraft type in their inventory.

 

[vraiblonde]

It's more of a situation where the Air Force decides that it's time for new hardware. Just as they do with any aircraft type in their inventory.

That's what I thought. I asked because sometimes what I think should be and what really is are two different things. Government rarely makes sense.

My next question is: does this require going to Congress with their hand out, or is it already included in the DoD budget?

 

[awpitt]

That's what I thought. I asked because sometimes what I think should be and what really is are two different things. Government rarely makes sense.

My next question is: does this require going to Congress with their hand out, or is it already included in the DoD budget?

This would be part of the DoD/AF budget under the Presidential Aircraft Recapitalization Program. The cost has changed a bit since the beginning, mainly because they didn't build the two planes from scratch for the AF. They got two already built 747-8s that were originally supposed to go to a Russian airline but that airline went bankrupt.

 

[vraiblonde]

This would be part of the DoD/AF budget under the Presidential Aircraft Recapitalization Program. The cost has changed a bit since the beginning, mainly because they didn't build the two planes from scratch for the AF. They got two already built 747-8s that were originally supposed to go to a Russian airline but that airline went bankrupt.

Thanks!

 

[Lurk]

. . .They got two already built 747-8s that were originally supposed to go to a Russian airline but that airline went bankrupt.

Crap! Here comes another Trump-Putin bromance allegation.

 

[Yooper]

I have a question about what this has to do with Trump. Can Presidents just go, "Hey, we need a new AF1, and btw a new hangar as well"?

That's a real question.

I though that Congress spends the money, not the President, and I also didn't realize a President would be so intricately involved in the mechanical things. I figured whoever is in charge of that stuff would make the request.

It has to do with Trump because he made this a point of public discourse back at the beginning of his Presidency; that he had "insisted" Boeing bring the price of the new AF1s down.

But this may or may not happen (depending on - from what I'm reading here by excellent contributors - how the project is green eye-shaded, what the AF says needs to happen & updates/changes due to new realities/requirements, what Boeing can get away with, whether downstream parts and maintenance are tallied up front or later, etc.).

Essentially, this is a "beat Tranny to the punch" and get good data out there before his/her/xer's usual tripe. I think most reasonable people understand that Trump was setting a "start of my administration" marker (i.e., that Boeing was going to have to prove its ask, etc.) and that actual cost may not reflect much of a discount (if any).

Started the thread with the hope (hope met, T/Y all) of having a good conversation about a complicated & necessary project instead of the 2-D cardboard crap that our esteemed Trump hater generally posts.

I'm learning quite a bit. Keep it coming, folks!

--- End of line (MCP)