New HVAC system, higher SEER--higher bills?

imaref

Active Member
I'm at a loss. I had a new 14.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system installed two months ago to replace my 20 year old 9.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system. During the majority of the year (looking at the SMECO Home Energy Reports, the ones that show you your energy use compared to neighbors), I'm normally on par or below the ussage for "my efficient neighbors". Since the new system was installed and has been running (which I can see exactly on the graph where usage shot up like a bullet), now I'm about halway between all neighbors and efficient neighbors.

My usage has gone up about 150kWh per month. I was looking forward to lower bills with the new system, not higher ones. Any idea what could be causing this? The new system does have the new refrigerant (R410) rather than the old (R22). I have the same thermostat as before (the SMECO CoolSentry) and the temperature settings are exactly the same as with the old system. Is the new refrigerant less efficient at cooling? The system cools fine, and seems to run the same amount of time per hour as the old system did.

Any ideas?
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
'Two months ago' coincides with the start of summer, so naturally your power bill is going to go up. Comparison to your neighbors is meaningless. Pull your power bills from prior years and look at your kWh consumed on a month-month basis (if you don't have copies of the bills, SMECO should be able to print off your prior years power usage month by month).

If your consumption has gone up compared to the respective months in prior years, it suggests that something is wrong with your install. Hooked up the wrong way, a refrigerant leak, something of that nature. First stop would be to have the installer come back and check refrigerant level and current draw of the different components (compressor, air-handler). If they tell you 'it's supposed to do that', you may need to have someone else come out to double check their work. Lots of shoddy HVAC install work being done.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
I'm at a loss. I had a new 14.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system installed two months ago to replace my 20 year old 9.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system. During the majority of the year (looking at the SMECO Home Energy Reports, the ones that show you your energy use compared to neighbors), I'm normally on par or below the ussage for "my efficient neighbors". Since the new system was installed and has been running (which I can see exactly on the graph where usage shot up like a bullet), now I'm about halway between all neighbors and efficient neighbors.

My usage has gone up about 150kWh per month. I was looking forward to lower bills with the new system, not higher ones. Any idea what could be causing this? The new system does have the new refrigerant (R410) rather than the old (R22). I have the same thermostat as before (the SMECO CoolSentry) and the temperature settings are exactly the same as with the old system. Is the new refrigerant less efficient at cooling? The system cools fine, and seems to run the same amount of time per hour as the old system did.

Any ideas?
you may want to consider a new thermostat. I just replaced a unit and a therm came with it, meant to work with this unit. My guy also recommended upgrading thermostat on my 2nd unit to help my older u it work more efficiently with the new. I don't think it was a scam because when I told him I couldn't afford it, he gave it to me.
 

foodforthought

New Member
We also replaced our 21 yr old unit back in May, along with a new thermostat. So far, we are running it 2-3 degrees cooler and still not using as much energy as before. I was skeptical at first, since it cycles on & off much more than the unit before. Our old unit would cut AC on and run ALL day long without stopping and still struggle to hold the temp. Maybe the old thermostat is causing the issue?




I'm at a loss. I had a new 14.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system installed two months ago to replace my 20 year old 9.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system. During the majority of the year (looking at the SMECO Home Energy Reports, the ones that show you your energy use compared to neighbors), I'm normally on par or below the ussage for "my efficient neighbors". Since the new system was installed and has been running (which I can see exactly on the graph where usage shot up like a bullet), now I'm about halway between all neighbors and efficient neighbors.

My usage has gone up about 150kWh per month. I was looking forward to lower bills with the new system, not higher ones. Any idea what could be causing this? The new system does have the new refrigerant (R410) rather than the old (R22). I have the same thermostat as before (the SMECO CoolSentry) and the temperature settings are exactly the same as with the old system. Is the new refrigerant less efficient at cooling? The system cools fine, and seems to run the same amount of time per hour as the old system did.

Any ideas?
 

imaref

Active Member
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm making an appointment with the company that installed it for my twice a year maintenance, and since they won't have as much to do since it's so new I'm going to have them check the thermostat, new flex line, etc.--they already will check the refrigerant levels as part of the regular servicing.

May 2015 I used 512kWh and efficient neighbors used 562kWh, so I used less. June 2015 I used 775kWh, very close to efficient neighbors use of 782kWh.

May 2016 (using the new unit) I used 772kWh and efficient neighbors used 611Kwh--quite a difference. Smeco doesn't have the June graph up yet.
 

Vince

......
I'm at a loss. I had a new 14.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system installed two months ago to replace my 20 year old 9.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system. During the majority of the year (looking at the SMECO Home Energy Reports, the ones that show you your energy use compared to neighbors), I'm normally on par or below the ussage for "my efficient neighbors". Since the new system was installed and has been running (which I can see exactly on the graph where usage shot up like a bullet), now I'm about halway between all neighbors and efficient neighbors.

My usage has gone up about 150kWh per month. I was looking forward to lower bills with the new system, not higher ones. Any idea what could be causing this? The new system does have the new refrigerant (R410) rather than the old (R22). I have the same thermostat as before (the SMECO CoolSentry) and the temperature settings are exactly the same as with the old system. Is the new refrigerant less efficient at cooling? The system cools fine, and seems to run the same amount of time per hour as the old system did.

Any ideas?
I had a larger unit installed also and in the summer my usage is above my neighbors, but in the winter I fall below them. Using the pellet stove for heat in the winter. My elect bill is $114 a month all year long (average plan).
 

imaref

Active Member
Thanks Vince. I'm wondering if I will see the same. I have read that the new R410 refrigerant is not as efficient at cooling as the old R22, so maybe I will realize savings in the heating months rather than the cooling months. Here is my usage graph (my usage in blue) and you can see the spike right when I started using the new system.

usagegraph.jpg
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm making an appointment with the company that installed it for my twice a year maintenance, and since they won't have as much to do since it's so new I'm going to have them check the thermostat, new flex line, etc.--they already will check the refrigerant levels as part of the regular servicing.

May 2015 I used 512kWh and efficient neighbors used 562kWh, so I used less. June 2015 I used 775kWh, very close to efficient neighbors use of 782kWh.

May 2016 (using the new unit) I used 772kWh and efficient neighbors used 611Kwh--quite a difference. Smeco doesn't have the June graph up yet.

I'd take those 'close' and 'efficient' neighbors info with a big grain of salt. They are averages of people that have pools, hot tubs, nothing at all, good insulation, bad insulation, etc.... I only trust my own numbers plotted over time.
 

imaref

Active Member
The problem is that in comparing my own numbers to last summer, the weather was different. Just got the July bill online--I used 898Kwh for the July bill, and last summer I used 775Kwh for the same billing period. But how can I compare them if the weather is different?
 
The problem is that in comparing my own numbers to last summer, the weather was different. Just got the July bill online--I used 898Kwh for the July bill, and last summer I used 775Kwh for the same billing period. But how can I compare them if the weather is different?

Average over time. Trends. You need a few years worth of data to really see what's going on. Too much dynamics in the short term.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Don't focus so much on the "neighbor" energy usage. That's more of a marketing tool used by SMECO for you to reduce your electricity usage. You could have one neighbor with a solar system and a $5 a month electric bill, and another with 3 hot tubs and a heated pool. You'll always be in the middle.


There's other factors (obviously) that play into energy usage. Did you have a Independence Day party this year? Was family visiting? (i.e. the water heater being used more). The big players are water heating, clothes dryer, and AC/Heat so if you were doing more of that you can't really tell what is contributing to higher usages.

It's obviously too late, but the best way would have been to measure the daily usage of the old A/C system (both indoor and outdoor units) and compare it to the new on a similar temperature day.



You didn't mention it, but was your indoor air handler replaced as well, or just the evaporator coil? Was a variable speed fan used? 14.5 SEER, while better than 9 SEER obviously, really isn't that efficient considering the 20+SEER units out now. How was the unit sized, or was it a direct replacement? If the unit is too big, it could be short cycling (turning on and off too much) and that could raise your usage. Believe it or not, but the system should run for some time in order to properly dehumidify the home and cool the home.
 

imaref

Active Member
After reading your posts, I took last year's July bill kWh and divided by the number of days read for that bill (in that case, 30 days). Did the same thing with the bill just posted today (which was for 33 days). For last July's bill I used about 25.8 Kwh per day, and this July I used 27.2 kWh per day. That makes me feel a bit better because hotter weather could be the culprit.

TN Bowes installed my system. They installed my original system as well, and I have had a service contract with them for almost 20 years. Very pleased with their service and work.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
...how can I compare them if the weather is different?

Get data for heating degree days and cooling degree days. This site is a decent place to start.
http://www.weatherdatadepot.com
Basically, this gives a better picture of how many days in a month would have required how much energy usage, which you can then use to spot variance from the norms. Makes it possible to accurately assess your own usage.
 

BlueSunday

New Member
I'm at a loss. I had a new 14.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system installed two months ago to replace my 20 year old 9.5 SEER American Standard HVAC system. During the majority of the year (looking at the SMECO Home Energy Reports, the ones that show you your energy use compared to neighbors), I'm normally on par or below the ussage for "my efficient neighbors". Since the new system was installed and has been running (which I can see exactly on the graph where usage shot up like a bullet), now I'm about halway between all neighbors and efficient neighbors.

My usage has gone up about 150kWh per month. I was looking forward to lower bills with the new system, not higher ones. Any idea what could be causing this? The new system does have the new refrigerant (R410) rather than the old (R22). I have the same thermostat as before (the SMECO CoolSentry) and the temperature settings are exactly the same as with the old system. Is the new refrigerant less efficient at cooling? The system cools fine, and seems to run the same amount of time per hour as the old system did.

Any ideas?
The first system I ever had was over 28 years ago and my first bill was triple what I was expecting .It was a heat pump system installed wrong to make the story short my heat was on while my AC was also on,yeah!Yes it was found and fixed but I bought a new system about 4 years ago and added a new thermostat and blower that helped alot!What I saved on my bills paid off the new system.
 

imaref

Active Member
Well the newest smeco bill is now on the home reports graph, and I'm back to being even with the "energy efficient neighbors". Not sure what caused the one month higher "glitch" but I'll keep an eye on it.
 
Well the newest smeco bill is now on the home reports graph, and I'm back to being even with the "energy efficient neighbors". Not sure what caused the one month higher "glitch" but I'll keep an eye on it.

Neighbors on vacation and had lower usage?
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
As others have pointed out earlier in this thread, that "energy efficient neighbors" number is purely statistics. From
https://www.smeco.coop/save-energy-and-money/home-energy-reports/faq

Who are the neighbors that I’m being compared to?

Your energy use is being compared to the usage patterns of a group of about 100 neighbors whose homes are close in proximity to yours, and similar in size and characteristics. Characteristics that typically lead to similar energy needs include home size, type of ownership, and heating source. We only include homes that appear to be occupied at the time of the comparison. These comparisons are completely anonymous, and no customer’s personal information or individual energy use is released.

I would point out that SMECO likely does not have very accurate information on your house size and characteristics. Shucks, all too often not even realtors can give two or three good comparables for your house; how could SMECO get it right in bulk?

I say ignore this number; it's purely marketing designed to get you to make your house more energy-efficient so they can meet their government mandates.
 

imaref

Active Member
As others have pointed out earlier in this thread, that "energy efficient neighbors" number is purely statistics. From
https://www.smeco.coop/save-energy-and-money/home-energy-reports/faq



I would point out that SMECO likely does not have very accurate information on your house size and characteristics. Shucks, all too often not even realtors can give two or three good comparables for your house; how could SMECO get it right in bulk?

I say ignore this number; it's purely marketing designed to get you to make your house more energy-efficient so they can meet their government mandates.

Agree it's a marketing ploy--but I'm a sucker for getting the score "GREAT" with two smiley faces...
 
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