NFL says cheating is OK if it goes high enough...

Larry Gude

Strung Out
...up the chain of command.

Roger Goodell has fumbled. On the goal line no less. Poised to take in the winning score and demonstrate that the NFL will protect it's integrity regardless of the offender.

Consider;

Pac Man Jones, most notable among others, got punished severely for his behavior. His off the field behavior. Behavior that has nothing to do with the integrity of the game itself. He wasn't gambling. He wasn't enhancing his ability to play well or cheat on the field in any way.

So, rightly in my view, the NFL has said we will not accept thuggish behavior from our employees anywhere, anytime. Good on you Roger.

To reaffirm that goes for everyone, Goodell sacked one of the leagues true superstars, Mr. Vick. Again, for bad or worse, what Vick did had nothing to do with the game itself. Real good on you Roger.

The leagues has, for some time, stood head and shoulders above the other major sports in punishing drug and steroid use. Certainly not to exclusion in a league filled with super humans, but they are at least appearing to try even kicking Ricky Williams out for dope smoking for perhaps life. So, you can't make yourself better or worse with drugs. Goodell gets further kudos for keeping up with these already established policies.

Now, we come to the Patriots caught, not accused, caught video taping the other teams hand signals in direct violation of, apparently, specific guidelines prohibiting this very practice. So, this is no 'oh, you mean that kind of cheating?' first time offense.

So, why did the they it? To make a few more plays. To win games. What they did goes to the core of the game, a game above all the others immersed in what?

GAMBLING

Imagine, if you will, the affect not only on wins and loses but the affect on POINT SPREADS and individual stats that cheating on the other guys plays would have. Think about it.

Every wager result on Pats games, win or lose, point spread and, yep, FANTASY football concerning both teams and players on both teams in every Patriots game the last few years is now suspect.

Think Pac man would be glad to pay a fine and be playing this season? Think Mike Vick would be more than happy to pay millions to put his troubles behind him? How about steroid uses? Pot smokers? Wife beaters? Car crashers?

I'll add one more facet; I am sick and tired of the race card being played every time a black athlete does something stupid and/or illegal but, but, there is no denying that Belichick is white and the Pats owner is white. It is now fair game to ask if Goodell would have treated this the same if Dungy or Smith or any of the other black coaches had been accused of the same. I, personally, think he would, but, the question is fair and it's fair because the Pats got off light, real, real light, cheating on the game itself, calling the integrity of the game itself into question for more than others have who were also punished far, far more severely than a few bucks to a probably billion franchise.

At the very, very minimum the Pats should have to forfeit the game and Belichick suspended, without pay, for the season. If not, it calls into question all the other punishments the league has handed out and the motivations behind them.

Goodell dropped the ball. Big time.
 

kom526

They call me ... Sarcasmo
What good would a suspension do for the game? Cheating happens every second of every game, sometimes subtle sometimes blatant. If Bellichek wanted to he could coach the team from his living room given the technology available today.

I'm really surprised that you would throw the race card in there, it just doesn't fit your usually well put together arguments. If you look at this from Goodell's side the league has never really run into this issue before. The use of technology for cheating is something that the league is going to have to address immediately for the band aid and thoroughly during the off season meetings. The allegations that concern me the most as a fan are the reports of opposing teams losing headset communications for several plays in a row while playing the Pats @ Gillette Stadium.

As far as the punishment: loss of a 1st round pick if they make the playoffs or a 2nd AND 3rd if they don't is maybe a bit light. My reasoning is this, the Pats have 2 1st round picks in 08. They need to lose both of those picks and then a 2nd and 3rd in 09.

Do you honestly feel that the recording that was made, which was confiscated after the 1st quarter, aided the Pats in their victory? If it could be proved that the tape did influence the outcome of this game then it should be forfeited but until someone can prove it then the score should stand.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
Larry Gude said:
Goodell dropped the ball. Big time.

I am probably the only one that doesn't see any connection between, PacMan, Vick..etal and the Pats..The Pats did nothing criminal. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. The league should have just come out and said no more video taping of others signals, you can't tell me it hasn't been done for the last 20 yrs. Unethical and swarmy, certainly..but not illegal. I think the wrong country has gone ape-chit over this, to me its not that big a deal. Crossed the line in gamemenship without a doubt, but its not different than having a sharp guy training binoculars on the signaling coach and figuring out the signals. Much ado about nothing and I think they went overboard with the fines.
 

kom526

They call me ... Sarcasmo
otter said:
The league should have just come out and said no more video taping of others signals, you can't tell me it hasn't been done for the last 20 yrs.
There was a letter issued from the NFL that stated this. The letter was dated 6 Sept. Bellicheck excuse was that he "didn't quite understand" the wording of the letter.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
kom526 said:
There was a letter issued from the NFL that stated this. The letter was dated 6 Sept. Bellicheck excuse was that he "didn't quite understand" the wording of the letter.

K, I stand corrected..but I still think the league went overboard with the fine. And comparing criminal actions with league infractions doesn't wash with me.
 

kom526

They call me ... Sarcasmo
otter said:
K, I stand corrected..but I still think the league went overboard with the fine. And comparing criminal actions with league infractions doesn't wash with me.
I'm thinking, and this is pure speculation on part, that the fines are Goodell's version of "actions detrimental to the sport" a la everyone's favorite NASCAR infraction.
 

Otter

Nothing to see here
kom526 said:
I'm thinking, and this is pure speculation on part, that the fines are Goodell's version of "actions detrimental to the sport" a la everyone's favorite NASCAR infraction.

Oh yeah, I agree with that, but anyone that thinks this hasn't been going on for years has their head in the sand. I think he went overboard, but on the other hand, every coach seeing that fine will think twice about stepping over the line now.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Don't forget the draft choice losses. This could be huge penalty long term.
I personally do not think the penalties were too big, they are just about right and the are also a very good deterent for future infractions
JMHO
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
As I understand it...

otter said:
I am probably the only one that doesn't see any connection between, PacMan, Vick..etal and the Pats..The Pats did nothing criminal. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. The league should have just come out and said no more video taping of others signals, you can't tell me it hasn't been done for the last 20 yrs. Unethical and swarmy, certainly..but not illegal. I think the wrong country has gone ape-chit over this, to me its not that big a deal. Crossed the line in gamemenship without a doubt, but its not different than having a sharp guy training binoculars on the signaling coach and figuring out the signals. Much ado about nothing and I think they went overboard with the fines.


...the Pats had already been warned.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
How long...

otter said:
Oh yeah, I agree with that, but anyone that thinks this hasn't been going on for years has their head in the sand. I think he went overboard, but on the other hand, every coach seeing that fine will think twice about stepping over the line now.


...has dog fighting been going? How many NFL players have been involved? How long have players been getting in trouble at strip clubs? Drinking? Guns? Witnessing murders?

The league has said if you embarrass us at strip clubs too much, out for a year.

The leagues has said if you are involved in dog fighting it might be a good bit longer.

The league has said for $750,000 you can increase your chances of winning games IF you get caught. What is it worth to make the playoffs? One home game is at least $6 mil.

Who is deterred more?
 

donbarzini

Well-Known Member
Belichick broke the rules and was punished. Was the rule-breaking the end of the world; and was the punishment adequate? I'll leave that for others to debate, mainly because I have been a Patriots fan since the age of ~5.

What bothers me the most about this debacle is the righteous indignation of some of the former and current players. I have two questions for all of you to ponder.

First: When this 1st came to light 2 years ago, when the Packers GM complained about the Patriots doing it, does anyone here know who the Pat's Defensive Co-ordinator was?

Second: This type of behavior has been going on longer than some of this forum's "veteran" members have been alive. Why else do you think George Allen used to have his Rams players wear backwards numbers during practices?

So to Steve Young I say go to your doctor and see if you need some blood pressure medication.

And to LaDanian Tomlinson: Did you have a press conference when Shawn Merriman was caught using performance enhancing substances? I must have missed it.
 

cattitude

My Sweetest Boy
Larry Gude said:
...has dog fighting been going? How many NFL players have been involved? How long have players been getting in trouble at strip clubs? Drinking? Guns? Witnessing murders?

The league has said if you embarrass us at strip clubs too much, out for a year.

The leagues has said if you are involved in dog fighting it might be a good bit longer.

The league has said for $750,000 you can increase your chances of winning games IF you get caught. What is it worth to make the playoffs? One home game is at least $6 mil.

Who is deterred more?

Cheating...

Apples and oranges, Larry.
 
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