Once again: NO COLLUSION

Yooper

Socket 1, Intel 80486
PREMO Member
I've gotten quite the kick out of making you look like an ass....
Dude, how can you lack such self-awareness?

You may get a kick out of it, but I cannot recall a single post where you actually made GURPS look like an ass.

If you feel like you do and that makes you feel better (about yourself), have at it. But the sad realization is that for all the electrons you continue to waste you got no game. None whatsoever, bra. Nada. Zilch.

Have a nice evening enjoying your visions of sugar plums and fairies dancing.

#Mirroring

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Kyle

Imagine No Democrats
PREMO Member
Dude, how can you lack such self-awareness?

You may get a kick out of it, but I cannot recall a single post where you actually made GURPS look like an ass.

If you feel like you do and that makes you feel better (about yourself), have at it. But the sad realization is that for all the electrons you continue to waste you got no game. None whatsoever, bra. Nada. Zilch.

Have a nice evening enjoying your visions of sugar plums and fairies dancing.

#Mirroring

--- End of line (MCP)
He's the pigeon at the chessboard.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
If that's your interpretation of what I said, then I'd say you're off track.

My point wasn't whether Mueller would indict anyone; my point was that he was unable to come up with any criminality regarding obstruction. Barr simply took it step further, in consultation with Mueller, Rosenstein, and other legal scholars that there is no evidence that Trump obstructed. Mueller clearly and purposely left it up to congress to decide whether Trump obstructed. Mueller took the cowardly route.
It’s not a question of ‘would’, it is a question of ‘could’. Mueller clearly says he COULD NOT indict the potus because of the OLC opinion. It is not cowardly to follow the law and hand the issue to the appropriate authority. Mueller followed the law and then he recommended that congress take it up from there.

You keep saying there is no evidence trump obstructed. Do you base that on your reading of the report?

Do you think Barr’s assertion that the olc opinion did not play a part in muellers decision to not prosecute was accurate?
 

Yooper

Socket 1, Intel 80486
PREMO Member
Discussing the second volume on obstruction, Levin said it “doesn’t have a syllable of legal significance, there’s not a syllable of law in it,” stressing that “none of it has been tested in the court of law.”

“That’s why Mueller wrote this — this is a political document that he should never have written,” Levin said, comparing it to an editorial piece.

“This is an op-ed. This is a 200-page op-ed, that’s all this is,” he declared.
^^^This.^^^

“That is why we have a court of law,” Levin said. “That is why prosecutors, dammit, are not supposed to write essays like this.”

After highlighting the fact that no one is focused on volume one, which he said was legal and did cite law, and found no collusion, he unloaded on the obstruction angle.

“[Mueller] didn’t have an obstruction case against the president of the United States or he would have brought it,” Levin insisted, becoming increasingly animated. “I’m using plain English so even Joe Scarborough and Jake Tapper can understand this.”

“Volume two is crap!” he continued, slamming his hand on a copy of the report for added emphasis. “Volume two was written for slip and fall lawyer Nadler, slip and fall lawyer Schiff. That’s why he wrote it. He knew the media would run with it.”
^^^And this.^^^

There's more if you click over.

Link: "Levin delivers rant for the ages, slices and dices Mueller report ‘so even Scarborough & Tapper can understand!’"

--- End of line (MCP)
 

TCROW

Well-Known Member
Not feeling this one at all. At all.

If I'm sitting around at the bar obviously drunk and I tell friends I plan on driving home (which would be a crime if I did) and my friends stop me from doing so I've still committed a crime?
Exactly. If you think to yourself that you want to rob a bank, that's not a crime. Is "thought crime", not where we want to be, obviously.

If you work (aka conspire) with others .. the language is something like "taking positive steps toward trying to commit a crime" (not an exact quote, but you have to do a bit more than 'agree over beers') then that is in fact a crime.

W/R/T POTUS, all of this is discussed in detail in now open-source material much of which has been posted here.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
Exactly. If you think to yourself that you want to rob a bank, that's not a crime. Is "thought crime", not where we want to be, obviously.

If you work (aka conspire) with others .. the language is something like "taking positive steps toward trying to commit a crime" (not an exact quote, but you have to do a bit more than 'agree over beers') then that is in fact a crime.

W/R/T POTUS, all of this is discussed in detail in now open-source material much of which has been posted here.
Why do you hate America? Trump has become the culmination/scapegoat of all the crap that has been going on in our beloved Country for years. How do you feel about that? Also, do you understand why this is happening to Trump? He was a maverick against all odds. There is a reason, and a season for everything. Turn, turn, turn. For you. 😄


Edit: When I, originally, used a random search to find The Byrd’s song, it gave me YouTube that I posted. Then, it said not available, so I edited, and used Bing. That’s all. Nite nite.
 
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littlelady

God bless the USA
Hey, Hankaroo! How are you? Are you going to continue to post laughing smilies when I post, or contribute something of substance? Just wondering. You were my first nemesis on the forum back in 2011. I’ve missed you. Are you ok? Take care. :huggy:
 
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littlelady

God bless the USA
All reading from the same script.

Mueller was the hero. Now, he has become an outie like a bellybutton that people try to conceal. I wonder how Mueller is feeling right now. He deserves every bash he gets. Our system of gov is hanging on by threads, but true Americans will try to weave those threads back together, again. :patriot: Thanks for posting the video. It says it all. Love you, sha-BOP.
 
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BOP

Well-Known Member
Mueller was the hero. Now, he has become an outie like a bellybutton that people try to conceal. I wonder how Mueller is feeling right now. He deserves every bash he gets. Our system of gov is hanging on by threads, but true Americans will try to weave those threads back together, again. :patriot: Thanks for posting the video. It says it all. Love you, sha-BOP.
I want Mueller to pay back every red cent that was spent on this witch hunt "investigation" over the last 2 years. If he can't, throw him in prison until he can.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
It’s not a question of ‘would’, it is a question of ‘could’. Mueller clearly says he COULD NOT indict the potus because of the OLC opinion. It is not cowardly to follow the law and hand the issue to the appropriate authority. Mueller followed the law and then he recommended that congress take it up from there.

You keep saying there is no evidence trump obstructed. Do you base that on your reading of the report?

Do you think Barr’s assertion that the olc opinion did not play a part in muellers decision to not prosecute was accurate?
Again, you're missing my point. Mueller was required to provide findings of crimes, not actually indict. He could have found that Trump obstruct and recommended action against him without actually indicting him. He didn't do this. There is no law that prevents him from saying "I have found that President Trump obstructed justice".

I'm saying there is no evidence that he actually obstruction. The report does show he attempted to obstruct through McGahn, Sessions and others to either stop the investigation or narrow the scope of it, but actual obstruction never happened. I am completely open to whether attempted obstruction or conspiracy to obstruct is an actual crime. But that would have to play into 'intent'. Did Trump really know he was trying to obstruct, or did he believe he was trying to exercise his executive privilege. I am taking into consideration that Trump is not an insider politician and may be ignorant to a lot of the rules that govern these things.

At this point, no criminal action has been advised from Mueller or anyone else. So, we are left with the house and what they intend to do. I mentioned before that I don't know if attempted or conspiracy to commit obstruction is an impeachable offense. It's clear Mueller could not find criminality in it, so I don't know how congress finds anything Trump did as a high crime or misdemeanor.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Exactly. If you think to yourself that you want to rob a bank, that's not a crime. Is "thought crime", not where we want to be, obviously.

If you work (aka conspire) with others .. the language is something like "taking positive steps toward trying to commit a crime" (not an exact quote, but you have to do a bit more than 'agree over beers') then that is in fact a crime.

W/R/T POTUS, all of this is discussed in detail in now open-source material much of which has been posted here.
Except that we prosecute people all the time who try to get others to kill their spouses for them. In many cases they are turned into the police by the person they ask to commit a crime.
Again, you're missing my point. Mueller was required to provide findings of crimes, not actually indict. He could have found that Trump obstruct and recommended action against him without actually indicting him. He didn't do this. There is no law that prevents him from saying "I have found that President Trump obstructed justice".

I'm saying there is no evidence that he actually obstruction. The report does show he attempted to obstruct through McGahn, Sessions and others to either stop the investigation or narrow the scope of it, but actual obstruction never happened. I am completely open to whether attempted obstruction or conspiracy to obstruct is an actual crime. But that would have to play into 'intent'. Did Trump really know he was trying to obstruct, or did he believe he was trying to exercise his executive privilege. I am taking into consideration that Trump is not an insider politician and may be ignorant to a lot of the rules that govern these things.

At this point, no criminal action has been advised from Mueller or anyone else. So, we are left with the house and what they intend to do. I mentioned before that I don't know if attempted or conspiracy to commit obstruction is an impeachable offense. It's clear Mueller could not find criminality in it, so I don't know how congress finds anything Trump did as a high crime or misdemeanor.
You should read the report. Mueller clearLy explains that he could not discuss if trump ‘should be’ indicted because trump wouldn’t be able to get due process. He cited the DOJ guidance on that.

But here is the thing, mueller went through all 10 instances of obstruction and he listed the three elements for each. If you can count to three, you can figure out which ones he thinks constitute obstruction. There are several where mueller found all three elements.

The only reason mueller ‘could not find criminality’ is because he was barred from doing so by statute.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
How can you obstruct the investigation of a crime if there is no crime.

The whole Russian Hoax was a frame up from beginning to end.
The Deep State and the democrats and Hillary tried to frame the President of the United States.
Who can blame him for wanting to stop it, and then letting them go ahead and make fools of themselves, after being advised that was the wise thing to do.

Not satisfied with making fools of themselves the idiots are doubling down.
 

Yooper

Socket 1, Intel 80486
PREMO Member
Not satisfied with making fools of themselves the idiots are doubling down.
It is possible that the doubling down also serves the purpose of "best defense = good offense."

As I see it, the Dems/HRC crowd/etc. want to keep the heat on because any let-up provides time and space for an investigation of all things HRC (DNC, Clnton Foundation, on and on). And I'm guessing that's not something this gang would see as a positive development.

So I fully expect the hysteria and double-downing to ramp up; even if what's being ramped up is utterly asinine. Because asinine and out of jail always beats an ass (or two or more) in jail.

#DanceWifYoDate

--- End of line (MCP)
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Except that we prosecute people all the time who try to get others to kill their spouses for them. In many cases they are turned into the police by the person they ask to commit a crime.

You should read the report. Mueller clearLy explains that he could not discuss if trump ‘should be’ indicted because trump wouldn’t be able to get due process. He cited the DOJ guidance on that.

But here is the thing, mueller went through all 10 instances of obstruction and he listed the three elements for each. If you can count to three, you can figure out which ones he thinks constitute obstruction. There are several where mueller found all three elements.

The only reason mueller ‘could not find criminality’ is because he was barred from doing so by statute.
You should stop assuming I haven't read it. I haven't read all of it, but I'm working on it.

Conspiracy to commit murder is pretty easy to prove. Plans, written statements, verbal statements... I know someone personally who conspired to murder her husband. She hired someone to do the job and planned everything. She was caught and will serve prison time until she's dead.

The thing about a president trying to stop an investigation because he knows he's guilty and aims to use his authority to stop it is a different thing. You have to know his state of mind - his intent. All facts point to Trump knowing he was not guilty of this and knew it was a burden on his presidency. Mueller could not come to his own conclusion that Trump actually committed obstruction. He passed the ball to congress. This has nothing to do with indicting Trump. It has to do with Mueller coming to a firm finding that Trump was, with absolutely certainty, guilty of obstructin. He could have still written that in his report even without an actual indictment. He chose not to.
 
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