Parallel Thread - Dems vs. Maynard

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Originally posted by MGKrebs



I wish I could find a new way to say it, but I can't... even if i were to agree with your premise that Iraq has not disarmed, you assume that the only possible response is massive attack. i think the goals can be achieved without that. You might think that all other options have been tried, but they haven't. Tighter embargos, more "inspector-enforcers", get more consensus on a plan (ANY plan that is more stringent than the past) and almost anything can be done. We can collectively decide to divide up Iraq if we thought that would help.


And since Bush stated we know where their weapons are, I say we take Blix by the hand, show him where they are, and tell saddam to destroy them. This of course would mean that we actually do know they exist and where they are, which has yet to be seen.

As for ousting saddam. I thought this was interesting from his press conference:

"I hear a lot of talk from different nations around where Saddam Hussein might be exiled. That would be fine with me -- just so long as Iraq disarms after he's exiled.
"

Be it by exile or a missile, removing saddam does not guarantee disarmament and he stated that himself.
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
And one more thing...

Ken or somebody keeps implying that the vast majority support attacking Iraq. But as usual, there is more to the story:

A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll shows 59% of Americans in favor of invading Iraq with ground troops in an attempt to remove Saddam Hussein from power

The outcome of the U.N. debate on Iraq remains pivotal to Americans' thinking: thirty-eight percent of Americans favor an invasion even if the United Nations does not approve a new resolution -- sponsored by the United States, Great Britain, and Spain -- that calls for an authorization of war. However, 40% oppose an invasion if the resolution does not pass.

about one in five Americans say the United States should not send ground troops to Iraq at all.

As such, roughly four in five Americans say they would support war against Iraq if the United Nations authorized it. including me.

And;

Sixty-six percent in this ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll support attacking Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein,

but:

At the same time, 57 percent continue to say they'd like to see more evidence. That grows to 68 percent if U.N. inspectors don't find hard evidence on their own. And 52 percent say that circumstantial evidence suggesting that Iraq possesses banned weapons — as opposed to hard evidence proving it — would not be enough to justify going to war.

From zogby:

Support or oppose sending son or daughter to war to remove Saddam Hussein
YES : 45
NO : 46

Support or oppose a war against Iraq if there were hundreds of American casualties?
YES : 41
NO : 50

Support or oppose a war against Iraq if it meant thousands of Iraqi civilian casualties?
YES : 38
NO : 51

Support or oppose a war against Iraq if it included sending in hundreds of thousands of U.S. ground troops?
YES : 45
NO : 46

Support or oppose a war against Iraq if the U.S. waged it without UN or international support?
YES : 40
NO : 52

So, I guess it means many people support THE IDEA of attacking Iraq, but in virtually all realistic scenarios, more are against.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by MGKrebs
So, I guess it means many people support THE IDEA of attacking Iraq, but in virtually all realistic scenarios, more are against.
But the fact remains that none of that stuff will happen.

I already sent my son off, as did many Americans. But there isn't going to be a draft or anything like that, so there won't be any "sending off" other than the ones who have already been sent.

There won't be hundreds of American casualties and the only civilian casualties will be the ones that the Iraqi soldiers hid behind. And who would be responsible for that?

There won't be hundreds of thousands of ground troops.

We already HAVE international support, with the exception of a handful of countries.

So that whole "poll" is moot. It's like saying, "Would you post on the Southern Maryland Online forums if you got an electric shock every time you did it?" Then, when most people say "No", saying that it proves that people don't like to post on the Southern Maryland Online forums. Ever seen one of those Quizno's commercials? Like that.
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
Well, IF there is not going to be hundreds of thousands of ground troops (how are we going to find the weapons?), and IF there aren't going to be American casualties in the hundreds, and IF there aren't going to be Iraqi civilian casualties in the thousands (we ARE going into Baghdad, right?), then I guess i fail to see the "imminent threat".

Would one of you PLEASE give me the scenario you foresee that makes this war make any sense??
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Golly gee whiz...

Percentage of colonists who were for going to war against King George III in 1775

0

Percentage of Americans who were for going to war over slavery in 1860

0

Percentage who were for going to war against Japan on December 6, 1941

0

Percentage who were for going to war against Germany on or about the same time

0

Now, we can hash out crap statistics and polls until Peter Jennings goes back to Canada and still have the same issue:

What is the RIGHT thing to do?

Answer: Fire King George as boss, before or after July 4, 1776

END slavery in our United States before or after April 12, 1861

Get rid of Tojo and Hitler before OR after Decemeber 7, 1941

Get rid of....Hussein... Before or after...RIGHT NOW

Then, that goof in North Korea, then an Ayatollah or two in Iran...

Who's next?

Anyone for France?
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
France?

Ahhh, oui! I will be in paris in about two weeks. Tiickets are cheap right now, so i guess i owe you right wingers a thank you!

Oh yeah, please note that lawrence failed to answer the questions or respond in any meaningful way.
 
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