Paul Ryan

[vraiblonde]

I guess it would depend on what you call an attack. If a reporter disagrees or asks an unfavorable question is that an attack? I have three who come to mind. Serge Kovaleski, Megan Kelly and Heidi Cruz.

I'll give you Serge, even though I don't think he realized that the guy was disabled. Kind of like Joe Biden telling that guy in the wheelchair to stand up. People made big hay over that, but that was an honest mistake on Joe's part. How are you supposed to know everyone in the world's disabilities?

Megyn was being a cow and wanted to shake her ass, and she got it handed to her. If she can't take heat she needs to reconsider her career. She wanted to be all tough and hard hitting, then get all weepy and faint when Trump insulted her.

Cruz's people had spent weeks trying to paint Melania Trump as a bimbo and gold digger, and nobody cared about that. "This slut could be our First Lady! " Trump retaliates with a remark about Heidi Cruz, and it wasn't even all that, and she weeps and faints. Please. Heidi Cruz is a highly educated investment banker with Goldman Sachs. Pretty sure she can hold her own and doesn't need to be treated like a little housewife and have her stupid husband rush in to "defend her honor ".

What's with these women, anyway? They want to be treated as equals to men, then they get faint and cry when they are. I find them WAY more insulting and offensive than Donald Trump.

 

[vraiblonde]

He was calling her ugly,

Show me where he called her ugly. Because Bann and I had both remarked way before that that Carly looks like she was weaned on a pickle, with that sour grimace she always has on her face. I immediately assumed that's what he meant, because it's true and he's not the first person to remark on it.

Yes, he's a rude person. It's a rude old world. I like someone who won't take these people's crap and gives it right back to them. YMMV

As to why Republicans want Hillary Clinton to be president, you'd have to ask them. I have no idea what their motivation is, which is why I'm curious what's going through Paul Ryan's head.

 

[Bann]

What are you talking about? Names like what? "Little"? "Low energy"? "Liar"? And when did he call any woman ugly, besides Rosie O'Donnell, who IS ugly and attacked him first?

Did you even bother to listen to what Trump actually said, or just the spin and paraphrase the media and Ted Cruz put out?

Of course he didn't.

 

[Bann]

I think the spin comes from Trump in reference to his comments about Carly Fiorina. He was calling her ugly, but when that came back on him he spun it another way. You can make excuses all you like, but the truth is he is a rude person. Would you tolerate his comments about people if he were your child talking about another person?

What you are missing here is there are REPUBLICANS who are having a hard time with this person because of the things he says and the manner in which he behaves. While it might be cool to cut up in a bar or with your pals, it isn't something I want from the person who is representing my country. If he continues in this fashion, I won't be voting in this election.

I'm personally not missing that there are REPUBLICANS who are having a hard time with this person. I'm fully aware of it. Are you aware that there are more -many more - Republicans, Democrats AND Independents who are NOT having a hard time with him?

Like I said - politics ain't beanbag. I, for one, (and apparently many, many others) am glad to see someone who will not cower and back down from a confrontation with these usual GOPe suspects. He is sticking up for The People, who are voting FOR HIM.

 

[tom88]

I'll give you Serge, even though I don't think he realized that the guy was disabled. Kind of like Joe Biden telling that guy in the wheelchair to stand up. People made big hay over that, but that was an honest mistake on Joe's part. How are you supposed to know everyone in the world's disabilities?

Megyn was being a cow and wanted to shake her ass, and she got it handed to her. If she can't take heat she needs to reconsider her career. She wanted to be all tough and hard hitting, then get all weepy and faint when Trump insulted her.

Cruz's people had spent weeks trying to paint Melania Trump as a bimbo and gold digger, and nobody cared about that. "This slut could be our First Lady! " Trump retaliates with a remark about Heidi Cruz, and it wasn't even all that, and she weeps and faints. Please. Heidi Cruz is a highly educated investment banker with Goldman Sachs. Pretty sure she can hold her own and doesn't need to be treated like a little housewife and have her stupid husband rush in to "defend her honor ".

What's with these women, anyway? They want to be treated as equals to men, then they get faint and cry when they are. I find them WAY more insulting and offensive than Donald Trump.

You asked me to name one person he attacked who didn't attack him first. I named three. You seem to be making excuses for him. I don't care if Heidi Cruz can handle his attack or not. That isn't the point. The point is a gentleman should not behave that way. Would you be proud of your son if he treated people that way? Certainly you would not. Someone picking on a man's disability, making fun of the way women look, insinuating a woman is having her period is boorish behavior and is not what I want from my president. This thread is about Paul Ryan. You think he's wrong because he won't blindly follow a presumptive nominee. I'm offering my reason why I may not which could be Paul Ryans. He's a family man, who values what most republicans I know value. He thinks God, Country and Family are important. I'm a republican. I am not going to vote for someone who I am embarrassed by. I think only democrats do that. Trump may change before the election. He may be able to win my vote, but it isn't automatic and I believe that is the same thing Ryan is saying. I applaud him for doing so. His actions I believe are the actions of a leader.

 

[BlueSunday]

The selective memory is strong with you....

With her "denial" isn't just a river in Egypt any more.

 

[PsyOps]

You asked me to name one person he attacked who didn't attack him first. I named three. You seem to be making excuses for him. I don't care if Heidi Cruz can handle his attack or not. That isn't the point. The point is a gentleman should not behave that way. Would you be proud of your son if he treated people that way? Certainly you would not. Someone picking on a man's disability, making fun of the way women look, insinuating a woman is having her period is boorish behavior and is not what I want from my president. This thread is about Paul Ryan. You think he's wrong because he won't blindly follow a presumptive nominee. I'm offering my reason why I may not which could be Paul Ryans. He's a family man, who values what most republicans I know value. He thinks God, Country and Family are important. I'm a republican. I am not going to vote for someone who I am embarrassed by. I think only democrats do that. Trump may change before the election. He may be able to win my vote, but it isn't automatic and I believe that is the same thing Ryan is saying. I applaud him for doing so. His actions I believe are the actions of a leader.

Our society is way beyond expecting men to behave ‘gentlemanly’. This should have become evident with Bill Clinton. I don’t think anyone in such a high position could have been more destructive to the feminist movement than Bill Clinton; yet he is still loved by progressives and feminists. Try to figure that one out.

People seem to love their ‘bad boys’. Especially when we’ve tried so hard to get a government to stand up against all these really evil leaders in the likes of Russia, China, N. Korea, and Iran… Especially when we’ve had to tolerate a congress that defies the will of the people time and time again. Trump is like that biker that you tend to hate because of his rude behavior, but end up loving because he defends and protects you with his rude behavior. As long as that person is standing up against the things we have come to hate (in this case our establishment political class), it doesn’t much matter their tactics. I’m beginning to look at this a bit like war… In order to win, truly win, you have to butcher the enemy in a most brutal way. So you need some real ‘bad boys’ to do the job. Trump is now that guy. We’ve trusted good guys to get the job done, and they’ve failed us. Let’s give a ‘bad boy’ a try.

That’s the best way I can characterize this whole phenomenon.

 

[Bann]

You asked me to name one person he attacked who didn't attack him first. I named three. You seem to be making excuses for him. I don't care if Heidi Cruz can handle his attack or not. That isn't the point. The point is a gentleman should not behave that way. Would you be proud of your son if he treated people that way? Certainly you would not. Someone picking on a man's disability, making fun of the way women look, insinuating a woman is having her period is boorish behavior and is not what I want from my president. This thread is about Paul Ryan. You think he's wrong because he won't blindly follow a presumptive nominee. I'm offering my reason why I may not which could be Paul Ryans. He's a family man, who values what most republicans I know value. He thinks God, Country and Family are important. I'm a republican. I am not going to vote for someone who I am embarrassed by. I think only democrats do that. Trump may change before the election. He may be able to win my vote, but it isn't automatic and I believe that is the same thing Ryan is saying. I applaud him for doing so. His actions I believe are the actions of a leader.

Have you seen Donald Trump's family lately? 5 children - 3 of whom are very successful adults in business and have very fine families of their own. 1 just graduated from the University of Pa. Trump thinks God, county and family are important, also. He was not born into wealth - his father made his wealth. Donald was loaned money when he became an adult and he turned that money in to MORE money. There was no silver spoon. They worked their asses off to earn that wealth. The "American dream" way.

I'm curious. Have you taken the time to read Trump's campaign website? To read what he thinks about each of the issues? Or do you simply rely on soundbites and news accounts of his words? He is not winning the numbers of votes because he's being "Mr. Nice Guy". This country has gone so far over the PC-bridge no one can stand up straight with a backbone anymore and call a spade a spade for fear of being outcasted as a bully. Trump is not afraid to say it like it is.

The Rosie O'Donnells of the world can say whatever outlandish thing they want about men and if a man says anything back - oh, my God! he's misogynistic.

Probably 4 or 5 years ago or so(?), Obama claimed on Jay Leno's show that he bowled worse than Special Olympians - yet, there was no big outrage of the media.

Trump is not your ordinary "PC-politeness" type of guy and he's not a shrinking violet. So many of the politicians today test the wind to see which way it's blowing and that is what the majority of people are tired of. It's evident in the voting numbers. :shrug:

 

[PsyOps]

Probably 4 or 5 years ago or so(?), Obama claimed on Jay Leno's show that he bowled worse than Special Olympians...

If you don't mind me asking, when you heard Obama say this, how did it make you feel at the time?

 

[Larry Gude]

Our society is way beyond expecting men to behave ‘gentlemanly’. This should have become evident with Bill Clinton. I don’t think anyone in such a high position could have been more destructive to the feminist movement than Bill Clinton; yet he is still loved by progressives and feminists. Try to figure that one out. Simple; power over principle. Women's movement leaders had to choose, integrity or power. Tammy Bruce and Camille Paglia, and others, chose integrity and have been anti Clinton ever since.

People seem to love their ‘bad boys’. Especially when we’ve tried so hard to get a government to stand up against all these really evil leaders in the likes of Russia, China, N. Korea, and Iran… Especially when we’ve had to tolerate a congress that defies the will of the people time and time again. Trump is like that biker that you tend to hate because of his rude behavior, but end up loving because he defends and protects you with his rude behavior. As long as that person is standing up against the things we have come to hate (in this case our establishment political class), it doesn’t much matter their tactics. I can't speak for what people see in him but if it's that, it is far worse than I'd imagined. The LAST thing Trump is is some rebel without a cause tough guy. He's profoundly image conscious. The biker doesn't give a damn what anyone thinks of them. Trump cares deeply, like any other narcissist, what is thought of him. I’m beginning to look at this a bit like war… In order to win, truly win, you have to butcher the enemy in a most brutal way. So you need some real ‘bad boys’ to do the job. Trump is now that guy. Again, if that's what people see in him, it's far worse than I'd imagined. We’ve trusted good guys to get the job done, and they’ve failed us. Let’s give a ‘bad boy’ a try.

That’s the best way I can characterize this whole phenomenon.

I still can't come to grips that you've given up and are considering sacrificing your principles for a person that is the antithesis of what you say you want.

 

[PsyOps]

I still can't come to grips that you've given up and are considering sacrificing your principles for a person that is the antithesis of what you say you want.

Please read my last sentence carefully. I have made no commitment. Really, the only other alternative I see is to just not vote; which also against my principles. Rock and a hard place.

I'm kind of at a point where I am telling myself: In the end, I am still going to be me. I'll go home at the end of the day, enjoy my evening with my wife, go into my man cave and create some music, get old and eventually - one day - die; and all of this will be of no consequence. Some things are just out of our control and I have to be done thinking anything I do makes a difference. It may a defeatist attitude; but in reality, for my personal gratification, it frees me.

 

[Larry Gude]

Please read my last sentence carefully. I have made no commitment. Really, the only other alternative I see is to just not vote; which also against my principles. Rock and a hard place.

I'm kind of at a point where I am telling myself: In the end, I am still going to be me. I'll go home at the end of the day, enjoy my evening with my wife, go into my man cave and create some music, get old and eventually - one day - die; and all of this will be of no consequence. Some things are just out of our control and I have to be done thinking anything I do makes a difference. It may a defeatist attitude; but in reality, for my personal gratification, it frees me.

No. You could vote for the person you SUPPORT. And be free. It is non nonsensical to take the position that there are only two choices; Trump or Clinton. It's even less sensible to think one is better than the other if you already believe the GOP has lied to your face quite enough. There were 'only' two choices in 2000 and enough people either didn't vote or voted Nader to stop Gore. What was Florida, 200 votes? I think a couple other states were that close. The flip side is anyone who saw then what a buffoon Dubbya was and voted R anyway out of party loyalty. Imagine being THAT guy and having to live with that.

Your vote is a matter of personal integrity. If you vote for someone you do not support because you support someone else less for whatever made up reasons you cook up to justify it, like pretty much all party first voters do, that's the value you place on your integrity. If you can live with that, fine. Then, all you're doing is what got us here; not really caring. No one who is the least bit conservative can support Trump, at all, and it because of what YOU long ago pointed out; he's an establishment liberal. You set that principle aside, how does the "I must vote" principle even matter?

It doesn't matter how much you despise Hillary; you're not a Dem. Your political responsibility is YOUR chosen party. That is what we fail at, right and left, we do NOT hold our own accountable. Liberals are continuing to sacrifice their integrity by supporter her. That's on them, not you. MANY are slowly coming around to the fact that, if she wins, they don't. They're stuck defending a pro wall street neo con with one rule; power. There is polling showing more and more Sanders supporters will not support her.

Do you really want to wake up having voted for Trump and then watch every thing you said about the guy come true? Or would you rather wake up knowing you no longer supported a party that long ago turned it's back on you? Those are your two real choices.

 

[PsyOps]

No. You could vote for the person you SUPPORT. And be free. It is non nonsensical to take the position that there are only two choices; Trump or Clinton. It's even less sensible to think one is better than the other if you already believe the GOP has lied to your face quite enough. There were 'only' two choices in 2000 and enough people either didn't vote or voted Nader to stop Gore. What was Florida, 200 votes? I think a couple other states were that close. The flip side is anyone who saw then what a buffoon Dubbya was and voted R anyway out of party loyalty. Imagine being THAT guy and having to live with that.

Your vote is a matter of personal integrity. If you vote for someone you do not support because you support someone else less for whatever made up reasons you cook up to justify it, like pretty much all party first voters do, that's the value you place on your integrity. If you can live with that, fine. Then, all you're doing is what got us here; not really caring. No one who is the least bit conservative can support Trump, at all, and it because of what YOU long ago pointed out; he's an establishment liberal. You set that principle aside, how does the "I must vote" principle even matter?

It doesn't matter how much you despise Hillary; you're not a Dem. Your political responsibility is YOUR chosen party. That is what we fail at, right and left, we do NOT hold our own accountable. Liberals are continuing to sacrifice their integrity by supporter her. That's on them, not you. MANY are slowly coming around to the fact that, if she wins, they don't. They're stuck defending a pro wall street neo con with one rule; power. There is polling showing more and more Sanders supporters will not support her.

Do you really want to wake up having voted for Trump and then watch every thing you said about the guy come true? Or would you rather wake up knowing you no longer supported a party that long ago turned it's back on you? Those are your two real choices.

The failure is already in place. It’s pretty much a done deal: Trump or Hillary regardless of what I do. After a while it gets a little insane exercising my personal integrity only to be right here in the same place. It’s a little bit like playing the lottery: you get your tickets, dream of winning and what you would do with all that money, only to find yourself in the exact same place the next day when you didn’t win. Well, regardless of what happens, my life is in a good place and whether I vote for Trump or some other third party person, it changes my life no one iota.

I deeply respect a lot of folks on here; people I’ve never met (you, Tilted, Sam, Chris, and many others), and people I’ve met (Vrai, Bann, Foxhound, Vince, and many others). When my opinion digs so deep as to anger a person I respect into calling me a dumbass and putting me on ignore, I know the whole thing has gone koo koo for cocoa puffs. Now, I’m not one to be too deeply bothered by this sort of thing; but I am in this case because it shows that, even among “friends” certain voices don’t matter. No musician likes getting booed off the stage. And this is the scene almost everywhere. One group shutting down another; and even using anger and violence to do so. It’s getting rather tiring; and I’m extremely discouraged by it all. I have to free myself of the insanity and just stop caring so much about these things.

 

[Bann]

If you don't mind me asking, when you heard Obama say this, how did it make you feel at the time?

Well, for one, I thought he was an idiot for saying it, because I know Special Olympian bowlers who could whip his butt! Anyhoo, I'm sure it's posted here somewhere, because I surely did comment about it.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I deeply respect a lot of folks on here; people I’ve never met (you, Tilted, Sam, Chris, and many others), and people I’ve met (Vrai, Bann, Foxhound, Vince, and many others).

Thanks. That was unexpected.

 

[vraiblonde]

It’s getting rather tiring;

Let me tell you what is tiring: Trump haters who are so invested in it that they've lost their "minds".

Donnah Tump call Carry Feeor ugly!
No, he didn't. Here's the video and exactly what he said...
... ... ... Donnah Tump call Carry Feeor ugly!

That is so tiresome that yes, at some point I don't care to interact with that person anymore because it's frustrating and pointless. And here's what else is tiresome:

I want a right wing conservative government!
So let's take some steps toward that...
NO!!! I want it RIGHT NOW!!!!
Well, you're not going to get it right now, so why don't we...
NO!!!!! NOW!!! Or NOTHING!
Then nothing it is. And thanks for that, pal.

It's boring and tiresome and frustrating and stupid. Why should I argue with those people? Or interact with them in any way?

 

[vraiblonde]

God forbid we should have a "rude" president.

 

[vraiblonde]

You asked me to name one person he attacked who didn't attack him first. I named three.

No you didn't. Heidi Cruz's husband launched the first missile, and there was no "attack" on Heidi anyway. He didn't "attack" that reporter, and Megyn Kelly indeed attacked him first.

So you actually named zero people he attacked who didn't attack him first. Since when is being rude an "attack"?

 

[Larry Gude]

I deeply respect a lot of folks on here; people I’ve never met (you, Tilted, Sam, Chris, and many others), and people I’ve met (Vrai, Bann, Foxhound, Vince, and many others). When my opinion digs so deep as to anger a person I respect into calling me a dumbass and putting me on ignore, I know the whole thing has gone koo koo for cocoa puffs. Now, I’m not one to be too deeply bothered by this sort of thing; but I am in this case because it shows that, even among “friends” certain voices don’t matter. No musician likes getting booed off the stage. And this is the scene almost everywhere. One group shutting down another; and even using anger and violence to do so. It’s getting rather tiring; and I’m extremely discouraged by it all. I have to free myself of the insanity and just stop caring so much about these things.

It is highly problematic to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. Most of us would say 'yes' to the question 'is it desirable to be able to disagree without being disagreeable'. Yet, in practice, we don't do very well with it. I don't exclude myself, at all. I have profound arguments with folks on here I probably have a fair bit in common with.

In person, it's even tougher and people speak their mind even less. I don't think it's ever been easy. It takes real effort to be friendly with someone you have a deep disagreement with.

I guess all I really care about is when someone holds a sincere position. It bothers me when I think they're holding a dogmatic one. Dubbya is only the most ready example. To me, there simply is no objective case for him being anything but a profoundly bad president from a right wing mind set. An enemy, frankly. Size of gummint. Expansion, scope, spending. You name it. And he had the power to do as he saw fit. And yet, there are still people who defend him and even like him. Objectively, he has done far more damage to the nation and the GOP than Obama or Hillary or any D could yet, there he is, still excuses made for him. To me, it's exactly like those moms who defend their son who is a 'good' boy. Or beaten spouses who defend their man.

How to reconcile that? You seem to get it. Most American's seem to, as well based on the resounding rejection of him when he came out to support his brother in South Carolina. That gave me hope.

So, take that and put myself on the other side, defending Dubbya. Well, I can argue he meant well. I can argue he seems to be a nice person. I can even argue he sincerely believed Med D, DHS, TSA, No Child, TARP and starting the GM bail out were in the best interest of the nation. I can certainly argue he was opposed by rabid, outrageous arguments that flew in the face of the facts. And I enjoy that, I like that I can see his point or, in any event, those points. But, then, what is the measure? What someone does or what we think they meant to do? Intentions or actions?

In any event, argument and disagreement, to be civil, has to be based on mutual respect. If that doesn't exist, then, it's a waste of time unless one just enjoys the base nature of arguing with someone they don't even respect. And that's why you considering Trump bothers me. Disagree as we might, I've always respected your views and your efforts to challenge your own arguments. I just can't see you coming around to Trump BECAUSE of our past arguments. THAT would be engaging in the insanity. To take the position that Hillary, or Bernie, could possibly be that bad is to say you have no faith in the courts or the legislative branch or the media. If it is that bad, how does it follow that someone like Trump, who you can't possibly support on any issue in and of itself, would make it any better?

 

[vraiblonde]

It is highly problematic to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. Most of us would say 'yes' to the question 'is it desirable to be able to disagree without being disagreeable'. Yet, in practice, we don't do very well with it.

Depends on how vehemently you disagree and how important it is. Example:

I love this blue shirt.
Really? I think the red one is much nicer.
That one's nice, too, but I prefer the blue.


vs.

I think you're a rich person because you make more than I do working at the Burger King fry station, so you should have to give me your money and pay for my pot habit so I can be rich like you.