Plan B

[kwillia]

I'd say religion has alot to do with this argument. The fact that the morals being portrayed here are based on religious beliefs, I'd say religion has EVERYTHING to do with it. Whether its your reason why you raise your child a certain way, or why you believe sex to be one way or another. Whatever you determine it to be, the reality is its based on a way of life. Keep in mind that the way you raise your kids, or have been raised isn't the way others have been raised or raise their kids. With that being said, despite the fact that you tell your children "not to have sex because parents make a mean face" doesn't mean that other people tell their children, Look I know your going to get it on, so make sure you use condoms and get on birth control, and if something should happen, here is a box of plan B in the cabinet to prevent a late night expensive trip to the ER to prevent pregnancy.

I don't need religion in my life to impress upon my kids that middle or high school relationships are based on immature emotions and mental and physical capacities based solely on the influx of newly flooding horomones. I can also impress upon my son that those girls willing to blow or do whoever flatters them or makes them hot are a big RED FLAG of WHOOT WHOOT! MENTAL ISSUES! SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT! and most likely not a girl he'd be bringing to any family cookout to hang out and with his family. I can impress upon my daughter that any school aged guy who insist she needs to "grow up and put out or lips on" if she wants to keep a guy could care less about her psyche and that is a big RED FLAG of TAP AND RELEASE and if she's willing to put up with that than she has mental issues that need to be dealt with and she should seek help and she most likely won't be the girl he'll be bringing to any family cookout to hang out with and meet his family.

If only kids would realize the difference a few years and maturity makes in how good a relationship and sex can really be.

 

[ZARA]

I don't need religion in my life to impress upon my kids that middle or high school relationships are based on immature emotions and mental and physical capacities based solely on the influx of newly flooding horomones. I can also impress upon my son that those girls willing to blow or do whoever flatters them or makes them hot are a big RED FLAG of WHOOT WHOOT! MENTAL ISSUES! SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT! and most likely not a girl he'd be bringing to any family cookout to hang out and with his family. I can impress upon my daughter that any school aged guy who insist she needs to "grow up and put out or lips on" if she wants to keep a guy could care less about her psyche and that is a big RED FLAG of TAP AND RELEASE and if she's willing to put up with that than she has mental issues that need to be dealt with and she should seek help and she most likely won't be the girl he'll be bringing to any family cookout to hang out with his family.

If only kids would realize the difference a few years and maturity makes in how good a relationship and sex can really be.

 

[Foxhound]

And what exactly is the social disease? Teenagers having sex? Gee, thats been going on for years!

The symptom (which is what you should have been referring to), is not teen sex, but the root cause of why our society has become so self centered and inconsiderate of others (the reason the children "slip through the cracks"). We are no longer civil, moral (not religious), or have any common courtesy. People no longer respect themselves or others, and therefore cannot pass on a reasonable set of values to the next generation. It's no longer about anything other than "me", what "I" want. This creates people who should never have kids. They are still too immature and irresponsible to raise them to be a valuable contributor to society, rather a drain that requires a socialist state to provide everything for them and their spawn, including how to eat, how to think, and how to tolerate laziness. People that need to be protected from themselves by a government.




(Where did that soapbox come from?!)

 

[Pete]

The symptom (which is what you should have been referring to), is not teen sex, but the root cause of why our society has become so self centered and inconsiderate of others (the reason the children "slip through the cracks"). We are no longer civil, moral (not religious), or have any common courtesy. People no longer respect themselves or others, and therefore cannot pass on a reasonable set of values to the next generation. It's no longer about anything other than "me", what "I" want. This creates people who should never have kids. They are still too immature and irresponsible to raise them to be a valuable contributor to society, rather a drain that requires a socialist state to provide everything for them and their spawn, including how to eat, how to think, and how to tolerate laziness.



(Where did that soapbox come from?!)

While I agree with most of what you said I mildly object to the decline of morality with regard to sex. People have been banging like screen doors since the beginning of time. 20's, 30's all the way through the now people have been having glorious yet forbidden pre marital, extra martial sex. Less effort is taken to hide it now.

 

[MJ]

While I agree with most of what you said I mildly object to the decline of morality with regard to sex. People have been banging like screen doors since the beginning of time. 20's, 30's all the way through the now people have been having glorious yet forbidden pre marital, extra martial sex. Less effort is taken to hide it now.

I seen that on the History channel

 

[libertytyranny]

I don't need religion in my life to impress upon my kids that middle or high school relationships are based on immature emotions and mental and physical capacities based solely on the influx of newly flooding horomones. I can also impress upon my son that those girls willing to blow or do whoever flatters them or makes them hot are a big RED FLAG of WHOOT WHOOT! MENTAL ISSUES! SOMETHING AIN'T RIGHT! and most likely not a girl he'd be bringing to any family cookout to hang out and with his family. I can impress upon my daughter that any school aged guy who insist she needs to "grow up and put out or lips on" if she wants to keep a guy could care less about her psyche and that is a big RED FLAG of TAP AND RELEASE and if she's willing to put up with that than she has mental issues that need to be dealt with and she should seek help and she most likely won't be the girl he'll be bringing to any family cookout to hang out with and meet his family.

If only kids would realize the difference a few years and maturity makes in how good a relationship and sex can really be.

I wish more parents would adopt this attitude. instead of telling their teens.."No No NO SEX, bad. Don't do it ever you will get a disease and die" or refusing tot alk abotu it at all, if they would focus on making sure they understand what sex does emotionally and what it can mean for your reputation, your relationships. That sex is not supossed to be a negative, it can be a fulfilling, fun part of a loving relationship. That having some respect and a little advice from someone who's been there can be the difference between a great experience and a traumatizing one. I think, especially with girls, we have been made to think that the appropriate message is "keep yourself "pure" (ugh hate that term) because men want to have sex with you and then you will get aids, knocked up and then die" when the better message is "sex is a fun part of a great relationship. that comes with an emotional impact you will not expect. makes sure the person you choose to sleep with cares about you, and you care about them. sex is a power exchange, sex is TRUST of a person when you are both vulnerable. make sure it is adding to your life and youre not doing it to make someone love you, because that will never happen"

The advice my mother gave me many years ago is still good, it still rings true and I still think about it. She knew what she was talking about and it only took an example or two for me to figure that out for sure. I am very fortunate to have a mother that was not afraid to talk to me about sex, who was not afraid of me having sex, who understood what I was up against and wanted to help me prepare so that I could make good, informed choices.

Not everyone has that..and I have found that the consequences of having parents who outright forbid or who ignore the issue can be pretty severe..and I don't just mean diseases and teen pregnancies..I mean emotional issues with sex that have far reaching consequences for their lives...because they made bad decisions that may have been avoided with a little knowledge.

 

[kwillia]

While I agree with most of what you said I mildly object to the decline of morality with regard to sex. People have been banging like screen doors since the beginning of time. 20's, 30's all the way through the now people have been having glorious yet forbidden pre marital, extra martial sex. Less effort is taken to hide it now.

I don't think young teens should be thrown into the same mix as older teens/young adults. I fully believe there is a big maturity gap between a 15 year old mind and that same mind just three years later at 18. I'm not saying an 18 year old is "done cooking" but I am a true believer that if mentored on the ways of relationships they are more able to handle the emotions that go with having sex than they would have been younger.

 

[Pete]

I wish more parents would adopt this attitude. instead of telling their teens.."No No NO SEX, bad. Don't do it ever you will get a disease and die" or refusing tot alk abotu it at all, if they would focus on making sure they understand what sex does emotionally and what it can mean for your reputation, your relationships. That sex is not supossed to be a negative, it can be a fulfilling, fun part of a loving relationship. That having some respect and a little advice from someone who's been there can be the difference between a great experience and a traumatizing one. I think, especially with girls, we have been made to think that the appropriate message is "keep yourself "pure" (ugh hate that term) because men want to have sex with you and then you will get aids, knocked up and then die" when the better message is "sex is a fun part of a great relationship. that comes with an emotional impact you will not expect. makes sure the person you choose to sleep with cares about you, and you care about them. sex is a power exchange, sex is TRUST of a person when you are both vulnerable. make sure it is adding to your life and youre not doing it to make someone love you, because that will never happen"

The advice my mother gave me many years ago is still good, it still rings true and I still think about it. She knew what she was talking about and it only took an example or two for me to figure that out for sure. I am very fortunate to have a mother that was not afraid to talk to me about sex, who was not afraid of me having sex, who understood what I was up against and wanted to help me prepare so that I could make good, informed choices.

Not everyone has that..and I have found that the consequences of having parents who outright forbid or who ignore the issue can be pretty severe..and I don't just mean diseases and teen pregnancies..I mean emotional issues with sex that have far reaching consequences for their lives...because they made bad decisions that may have been avoided with a little knowledge.

How you doin

 

[PsyOps]

PsyOps,

One ethical situation that was brought up in a recent class of mine was a girl being raped by her brother, seeking an abortion, and not wanting to tell her parents.

Obviously that's a really extreme and fictitious example but it makes me wonder if laws like this are partially designed to protect those people and to encourage them to seek reliable, professional, discrete help.

I don't think it's all that fictitious. I bet it happens all the time.

Look, I don’t mean to imply that any of these things are easy decisions or are devoid of complications. I have always maintained that people don’t need me to tell them what to do with their lives, especially when confronted with impossible decisions like getting pregnant from rape.

That being said, it’s been my DESIRE, my wish, my hope and dream that we have a world where kids trust their parents enough to tell them when something is wrong, no matter what it is. Even though I have taken great efforts to tell my kids they can approach me with anything without criticism or condemnation, as long as they were honest. This doesn’t guarantee anything. But what I can’t accept is the government yanking the rug out from under me decisions that should be mine regarding my kids and taking drugs/medications. Should the parents have any say in anything THEIR kids ingest?

But as much as I rant about these things, I do have a large dose of reality, and I completely understand it’s not a perfect world. If my child had sex and got this pill without me knowing, I’d be unhappy about it, but I will still love her and try to tell her that she can still come to me when she has problems. I want her to trust me that my wife and I are the ones she can trust to do what’s best for her. I don't think giving 15 year olds the green light to take medication they have no clue how to take or the risks involved is looking out for their best interest.

 

[protectmd]

I don't think giving 15 year olds the green light to take medication they have no clue how to take or the risks involved is looking out for their best interest.

The risks involved of not taking it would be getting pregnant. The risks of taking it are not getting pregnant.

I would imagine that the warnings on the side of the box are sufficient enough that a 15 year old could make the decisions on whether to take the pill or not to. This pill has no more risk than tylenol (which by the way is toxic for the users liver). I think that if there was serious risk of using drugs that are sold on store shelves, then no drugs at all would be sold on door shelves. The reality is, there is inherent risk in any medication that is sold whether its prescribed, sold on store shelves or sold on the internet. However, the question that should be asked is does the risk outweigh the benefit? Is the drug addictive? All of these questions are asked/answered by the FDA before decisions are made. I would imagine the risks of driving a motor vehicle on America's highways is much more than the risks of taking the morning after pill.

If you don't want your teenager to have the morning afterpill, then thats on you. Others want their teens to have access to it, because they don't want to have to deal with the interruption of teen pregnancy. The option is there, for everyone. I think that some people are scared that despite their conservative views and teachings, that their daughter might be the one who goes and picks up a box of this afterpill and takes it, after a "slip up" or "oopsy." Nobody really wants to talk about what it takes to get their child to college, without pregnancy, without arrests, without the drug addiction etc. It takes things like this, thats a reality.

 

[PsyOps]

The risks involved of not taking it would be getting pregnant. The risks of taking it are not getting pregnant.

I would imagine that the warnings on the side of the box are sufficient enough that a 15 year old could make the decisions on whether to take the pill or not to. This pill has no more risk than tylenol (which by the way is toxic for the users liver). I think that if there was serious risk of using drugs that are sold on store shelves, then no drugs at all would be sold on door shelves. The reality is, there is inherent risk in any medication that is sold whether its prescribed, sold on store shelves or sold on the internet. However, the question that should be asked is does the risk outweigh the benefit? Is the drug addictive? All of these questions are asked/answered by the FDA before decisions are made. I would imagine the risks of driving a motor vehicle on America's highways is much more than the risks of taking the morning after pill.

I see, so we want no risks in ordinary life. We want to make sure drugs are at the ready for anyone, especially under-aged kids, to fix it. Screw the parents. Who needs ‘em? Why should a parent have any say in what drugs their kids are taking?

I would imagine a 15 year old in a panic of getting pregnant, they aren’t going to bother to read the box. In fact, I imagine they will figure ‘Crap! I better make sure I take a bunch of these to make sure or my parents will really kill me’. It will take the first OD on these things to change this. And here’s the other part… 15 years olds – who thing they know everything anyway – will feel there is no more risk to getting pregnant so they will go right into unprotected sex. Oh, they didn’t tell you this pill doesn’t prevent STDs? Don’t need to; 15 year olds know everything. No risks?

Morning-after pill: Risks - MayoClinic.com

The morning-after pill isn't appropriate for everyone. Tell your health care provider if:

Did you catch that? Tell your health care provider. Pffft… a 15 year old doesn’t have to see a healthcare provider and wont bother. And they wont bother to read any of the risks when desperate to avoid getting pregnant.

• You're allergic to any component of the morning-after pill.
  
• You're taking certain medications that may decrease the effectiveness of the morning-after pill, such as barbiturates or St. John's wort (gee I wonder if that includes drugs like Ritalin?)
  
• You're breast-feeding (Plan B One-Step and Next Choice can be used during breast-feeding, but Ella isn't recommended)

Side effects of the morning-after pill typically last only a few days and may include:

• Nausea or vomiting
• Dizziness
• Fatigue
• Headache
• Breast tenderness
• Bleeding between periods or heavier menstrual bleeding
• Lower abdominal pain or cramps
• Diarrhea

And this site states this:

These well-documented adverse side effects include significant weight gain (on average 15 pounds), depression, ovarian cyst enlargement, gallbladder disease, high blood pressure, respiratory disorders,4 increased risk of ectopic pregnancy and death.

I wonder how many 15 year olds will bother to check into this?

If you don't want your teenager to have the morning afterpill, then thats on you. Others want their teens to have access to it, because they don't want to have to deal with the interruption of teen pregnancy. The option is there, for everyone. I think that some people are scared that despite their conservative views and teachings, that their daughter might be the one who goes and picks up a box of this afterpill and takes it, after a "slip up" or "oopsy." Nobody really wants to talk about what it takes to get their child to college, without pregnancy, without arrests, without the drug addiction etc. It takes things like this, thats a reality.

I am voicing my opinion on the subject not putting anyone on trial. I didn't say I didn't want anyone to have access to this pill. All I have stated is I want the parent to be involved in the decision of their 15 year old taking drugs. I happen to think it’s a bad thing for kids to take medications that should require a prescription and a parent’s consent. I happen to think that when a parent is forced to consent it opens up communication to things otherwise hidden from them. I’m not like you, who doesn’t seem to give a damn about what your kid (if you had kids) is doing and prefer to stay in the dark about it; something as important as sex and getting pregnant. I recognize it’s not a perfect world and mistakes are going to happen regardless of what I do try to teach my kid. But turning a blatantly complacent blind eye to the matter doesn’t do anything but tell your kid you don’t care. That may be the message you want to send to your child, I don’t.

 

[PsyOps]

This pill has no more risk than tylenol (which by the way is toxic for the users liver).

acetaminophen Oral : Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings & Dosing - WebMD

Taking too much acetaminophen may cause serious (possibly fatal) liver disease.

I don't know, sounds like Tylenol can be pretty serious.

This drug usually has no side effects.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including:

• rash
• itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat)
• severe dizziness
• trouble breathing

A relatively short list compared to Plan B. :shrug:

 

[bcp]

7 more months and its non of my business anymore.

A major relief in some ways, a terror in others.

All we can do is hope that we raised her with the proper skills to cut a bitch that tries to screw with her.

I mean, raised her with proper morals.

 

[kwillia]

7 more months and its non of my business anymore.

A major relief in some ways, a terror in others.

All we can do is hope that we raised her with the proper skills to cut a bitch that tries to screw with her.

I mean, raised her with proper morals.

You've done your job! I'm two weeks past it no longer bying my business and I sleep well at night!

 

[Bann]

They didn't matter before, which is why this pill was approved to try and keep little Dip####ica from spawning.

Follow me, here:

If parents wanted to actually parent and keep tabs on their teenagers, they would have a relationship such that morning-after pills wouldn't even play a role. Or at least the parent would know about it, in the event of their daughter's unintentional pregnancy.

This pill is for adult women, but also for teens whose parents do not give a damn for whatever reason. I see it as the government isn't taking over for the parents; it is stepping in where the lazy parent doesn't want to be bothered.

I mean, do we really want these girls popping out more dumbasses like them? How many dumbasses do we really need in this country?

Hell, I'd make it available for 10 year olds.

Exactamundo! Ya can't save all the starfish, people! Ya just can't! And why would we want to?

Let the Darwinijits of the world just die off.

 

[Bann]

7 more months and its non of my business anymore.

A major relief in some ways, a terror in others.

All we can do is hope that we raised her with the proper skills to cut a bitch that tries to screw with her.

I mean, raised her with proper morals.

You've done your job! I'm two weeks past it no longer bying my business and I sleep well at night!

You guys are about a year ahead of me with Thing2. He's pretty well done by this point. (fewer dumbassery moments!) My main job is just fine tuning now - up to graduation in June, 2014.

 

[MarieB]

The DOJ is appealing the decision

 

[Ken King]

The DOJ is appealing the decision

DOJ is appealing the Federal judge's decision that this pill be available for all, regardless of age, not the FDA decision that only those 15 and older can have access to it.

 

[Foxhound]

While I agree with most of what you said I mildly object to the decline of morality with regard to sex. People have been banging like screen doors since the beginning of time. 20's, 30's all the way through the now people have been having glorious yet forbidden pre marital, extra martial sex. Less effort is taken to hide it now.

I was not referring to promiscuous sex as a decline in morality. That as you say has been around since recreational sex has. It was more about our lack of teaching the generations after us to be socially responsible. Which is why we have immature people, (of any age), having children in the first place. This is perpetuating the decline of our social fabric. So I guess thinking about it like that, yes, by all means, allow them to have birth control.

 

[Pete]

I was not referring to promiscuous sex as a decline in morality. That as you say has been around since recreational sex has. It was more about our lack of teaching the generations after us to be socially responsible. Which is why we have immature people, (of any age), having children in the first place. This is perpetuating the decline of our social fabric. So I guess thinking about it like that, yes, by all means, allow them to have birth control.

Which brings us to the infuriating part of the whole debate.

Sex is pleasurable.
We are genetically coded to procreate.
Humans will engage in pleasurable experiences whenever possible
Unprotected sex invariably equals pregnancy
Pregnancy in many cases is unintentional
Unintentioanl pregancny in many cases equals poverty
Preganacy at early age nearly ALWAYS equates to poverty
Poverty equals governmental financial support
Even with governmental financial support life sucks when you are poor/with children.

People STILL have unintended preganacies which put them in poor financial situaions requiring financial support and their life is less than happy even though preganacy prevention is available all over the place and it is common..

Where to we break the chain? We have been preaching about sexual responsibility for eons and it has not worked.

People will be lectured about social responsibility. - Unavoidable
People resist training when it is contrary to their immediate wants. - Unavoidable
People will have sex - Unavoidable
Unprotected Sex results inevitablely in pregnancy - Avoidable
Pregnancy at early ages in most cases leads to poverty and financial entitlements - Unavoidable

Using this logic I would say the market penetration point for this Plan B pill should be where sexual activity statistically begins. If it is 15 then so be it.

That all said I talked to a teen aged girl about this yesterday. I said thet the presence of the pill in my mind would not promote promiscuity, that is going to happen regardless. It simply provides an alternative to the potential pregnancy that would most certainly lead to poverty and a poor life.

She disagreed and said that if available the girl would me more likely to engage in sexual activity because now she has an out. She also pointed out that in todays world the vast majority of girls are on BC pills at much earlier ages if not to prevent pregnancy by parents who are concerned and proactive, but to regulate hormones, acne, and many other things.