Pope John Paul II one step closer...

[libby]

Yes, a person is a saint in Heaven but only if they were one when they left earth. There is no Purgatory, so that argument is dead (pun intended).

Sorry; not according to God:
"9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (1 Thessalonians 2 v 9-12)

Again; caring about someone is not bashing them...

If you haven't seen anyone bow down to a statue, you haven't been watching. I know people who have shrines and altars to Mary in their homes and they kneel and bow down and pray to them. Ever been to a schools "May procession"? A Catholic's first communion? Guess who's the guest of honor there?

Scripture does; he just doesn't know it.
Deuteronomy 18:10 & 11 "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead".

Isaiah 8:19 "When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?

Libby, the woman in Rev 12 is the Jewish believing community (the Messianic Jews), NOT THE VIRGIN MARY! Jesus came from the Jewish lineage of David, born in Bethlehem in Judea, the Root of Jesse, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, etc.

Libby that is soo wrong! That's like saying that, since Elvis was called the king, he must be Jesus...

The "assumption" of a human is a blessed event and only 3 biblical people went through it: Enoch, Elijah & Jesus. Show me where the Bible says that Mary was sinless, assumed into heaven or a perpetual virgin and I'll believe it. (And she was NOT God's mother!)

Not in my opinion. It is founded in Scriptures by simply putting two and two together.
The Bible itself says that many other things were done by Jesus that were not written down, and I believe the assumption of Mary is one of them.
Lastly, Jesus was not "assumed"; He ascended. That is an important distinction in Catholic theology and probably one of the reasons you insist on perpetuating the myths about the RCC faith.
To be "assumed" is to have God bring you up to Heaven. To "ascend" is to have gone up under your own power. Jesus, being God Incarnate, did not need to be brought up, it was His own doing.
People in Heaven are not dead. They are more alive than we are; they are in the presence of God! You and SM both ignored all of the Scriptures that I posted on that point. Figures.

 

[Starman3000m]

Not in my opinion. It is founded in Scriptures by simply putting two and two together.
The Bible itself says that many other things were done by Jesus that were not written down, and I believe the assumption of Mary is one of them.
Lastly, Jesus was not "assumed"; He ascended. That is an important distinction in Catholic theology and probably one of the reasons you insist on perpetuating the myths about the RCC faith.
To be "assumed" is to have God bring you up to Heaven. To "ascend" is to have gone up under your own power. Jesus, being God Incarnate, did not need to be brought up, it was His own doing.
People in Heaven are not dead. They are more alive than we are; they are in the presence of God! You and SM both ignored all of the Scriptures that I posted on that point. Figures.

libby, my dear, please take a moment to think what you said. If Mary was going to partake of the bodily "assumption" into heaven, don't you think that that would have been something Jesus would have assured her of and then been affirmed and written down by His Apostles who would have witnessed that comment?

As I have asked you before, do you believe contrary to Scripture that there are now four (4) or more in heaven when Jesus said that there were three?

Here is the view of the Vatican and you have been taught to believe it:
Father, Son, Holy Spirit + Mary (Queen of Heaven and Mediatrix) along with
all other "patron saints" that one can pray to and ask for their guidance.

I love you dearly, libby, but that is not Biblical theology; it is a misguided teaching written after-the fact and adopted into RCC teachings. The divine mother figure stems from pagan teachings that Rome mixed in with Christian teachings. The Catechism is mixed with half-truths and the appeal to make you believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin, assumed into Heaven where she now resides as Queen of Heaven and Mediatrix is a false teaching.

There Is Only One Truth

 

[Bavarian]

For Starman, Italien Stalion and others of like mind: Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

 

[PsyOps]

For Starman, Italien Stalion and others of like mind: Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

There are verses where Jesus states He and God are one and the same. Genesis (and other verses) has reference to 'Us' when talking about heavenly beings. Mary was conceived through the Holy Spirit.

From this aspect I have no problem with believing there is a 'Trinity'. This being there are a whole host of spiritual parts to God. Is Mary a part of this? I suppose so. Does this mean she makes or influences any decisions regarding salvation? Absolutely not. You can't escape:

"“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

not: No one comes to the Father except through me and/or Mary and/or the Holy Spirit

not: No one comes to the Father except through me and/or the saints and/or the pope.

Just Jesus. Period.

 

[Starman3000m]

For Starman, Italien Stalion and others of like mind: Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

The Holy Bible declares that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I believe what the Holy Bible states about the Divine Triune Nature of God:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.- And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (1 John 5:6-8)

and Jesus' Words which proclaim:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one. (John 10:28-30)

And Jesus' warning of the Authority of The Holy Spirit:

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. (Mark 3:28-29)

 

[Bavarian]

There are verses where Jesus states He and God are one and the same. Genesis (and other verses) has reference to 'Us' when talking about heavenly beings. Mary was conceived through the Holy Spirit.

From this aspect I have no problem with believing there is a 'Trinity'. This being there are a whole host of spiritual parts to God. Is Mary a part of this? I suppose so. Does this mean she makes or influences any decisions regarding salvation? Absolutely not. You can't escape:

"“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

not: No one comes to the Father except through me and/or Mary and/or the Holy Spirit

not: No one comes to the Father except through me and/or the saints and/or the pope.

Just Jesus. Period.

The Trinity is One God in Three Divine Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We know this because this dogma dates to the 4th Century at the Council of Nicea, AD 325. Therefore, you can see that we can not use the Bible along to understand the Word of God. We require magisterium and ecumenical councils, factors outside the Bible to understand the Bible.

 

[Starman3000m]

The Trinity is One God in Three Divine Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We know this because this dogma dates to the 4th Century at the Council of Nicea, AD 325. Therefore, you can see that we can not use the Bible along to understand the Word of God. We require magisterium and ecumenical councils, factors outside the Bible to understand the Bible.

Excuse me!!! The scripture verses quoted, as written by the Apostles (not magisterium) plainly explain the Triune Nature of God.

Just as you have the nature of a spirit, soul and body so God, our Creator, is Divinely present as ONE: Father, Son and Holy Spirit

 

[ItalianScallion]

Not in my opinion. It is founded in Scriptures by simply putting two and two together.
The Bible itself says that many other things were done by Jesus that were not written down, and I believe the assumption of Mary is one of them.
People in Heaven are not dead. They are more alive than we are; they are in the presence of God! You and SM both ignored all of the Scriptures that I posted on that point. Figures.

You've put 2+2 together but you only got 3. I'd bet anything that Mary was NOT assumed nor ascended into Heaven. In fact, neither her death (nor Joseph's) is even mentioned in the Bible. Her "assumption" would have been too big of an event for the Bible writers to leave out Libby. It is you and a few others here are guilty of an "assumption"....

I fully agree that people in Heaven aren't dead and are very alive. They cannot, however, make and contact with earthlings or vice-versa. This is a forbidden practice in Scripture.

For Starman, Italien Stalion and others of like mind: Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

Yes I do, 100%.

The Trinity is One God in Three Divine Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We know this because this dogma dates to the 4th Century at the Council of Nicea, AD 325. Therefore, you can see that we can not use the Bible along to understand the Word of God. We require magisterium and ecumenical councils, factors outside the Bible to understand the Bible.

We know this because Scripture makes it clear. We don't need and dogma or catma to prove that. You fail to see how you are being controlled by the RCC just as I once was. They know that, if you read the bible on your own, you'll see their lies and leave them. So they brainwash you (at a young age) into thinking that you cannot understand it for yourself and you need some "M & E Councils" to interpret it.

 

[2ndAmendment]

For Starman, Italien Stalion and others of like mind: Do you believe Jesus is God? Do you believe in the Blessed Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

Yes.

 

[Starman3000m]

Re: Belief In The "Trinity" (Triune Nature of God)

There are verses where Jesus states He and God are one and the same... From this aspect I have no problem with believing there is a 'Trinity'.

Yes.

...Yes I do, 100%.

We know this because Scripture makes it clear. We don't need and dogma or catma to prove that. You fail to see how you are being controlled by the RCC just as I once was. They know that, if you read the bible on your own, you'll see their lies and leave them. So they brainwash you (at a young age) into thinking that you cannot understand it for yourself and you need some "M & E Councils" to interpret it.

As the Holy Bible proclaims, it is through the Indwelling Presence of The Holy Spirit of God within the life of a born-again believer that gives us the spiritual understanding of God's Truth!

Scripture also declares quite plainly that it is the Holy Spirit that guides us daily in our personal relationship with God through Christ. The Holy Spirit is our source of strength to live a Christian life; our Comforter, and our Teacher to help us discern Truth from error. We rely on guidance from God - not man.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. (John 15:26)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

Through being Born Again, in the here and now, one's Salvation is Sealed by the Holy Spirit of God and this is made known to us in the here and now - not after we are dead:

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(2 Corinthians 1:22)

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (Romans 8:16)

Ye Must Be Born Again.

 

[onel0126]

They know that, if you read the bible on your own, you'll see their lies and leave them. So they brainwash you (at a young age) into thinking that you cannot understand it for yourself and you need some "M & E Councils" to interpret it.

While I respect your opinion I disagree on most things. But to invoke your paranoia above shows your degree of fear. What do they have to fear from people leaving? Don't say money--trust me that's not it. People have been leaving the RCC for decades--because the RCC will not change its stance on social issues. They find a church where they can make an altar call, feel good about being born again and go about their merry way still a sinner--kind of a one and done type of deal. Great friends of mine left the RCC this summer--I asked why--I was told by the wife, my kid doesn't like Mass--he thinks its boring. I asked what he liked about their new church--she said he plays basketball and video games and gets jiggy with the "praise music."

 

[Starman3000m]

...They find a church where they can make an altar call, feel good about being born again and go about their merry way still a sinner--kind of a one and done type of deal.

I will definitely take issue with you on your comment above. Sincere Born-again people find great peace and joy in worshipping the Lord with a peace that surpasses all understanding. Born again people do not "go about their merry way still a sinner" but, through Repentance, reflect on God's Grace for His Divine Forgiveness and are brought under conviction by the Holy Spirit when they begin to stray away from a close relationship with God.

Becoming Born-again is the beginning of a Spiritually New Life in Christ which means turning away from things of the world that quench and grieve the Holy Spirit and thus affect one's relationship with God.

BTW: Churches attended by Born-Again Children of God do not have fund raising feasts where alcoholic beverages are sold to the congregants

Great friends of mine left the RCC this summer--I asked why--I was told by the wife, my kid doesn't like Mass--he thinks its boring. I asked what he liked about their new church--she said he plays basketball and video games and gets jiggy with the "praise music."

There is nothing wrong with having a joyous gathering with fellow believers and sensing the presence of God's Holy Spirit in praise and songs of worship. There is a spiritual awareness of God's Divine presence that many times bring one to tears of joy in Praising our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Children come to learn that God is a loving God that does not require a strictly solemn attitude to come before His presence.

Since becoming saved as a born-again believer in Christ in 1976, my life has never been more peaceful even through the midst of difficult times. God saved my marriage, saved my wife and me and is our refuge and source of strength.

 

[onel0126]

BTW: Churches attended by Born-Again Children of God do not have fund raising feasts where alcoholic beverages are sold to the congregants

This seems to bother you and Marie. Yeah, the battered women's shelter Hughesville that benefited from this should turn down the funds next time.

 

[Starman3000m]

This seems to bother you and Marie. Yeah, the battered women's shelter Hughesville that benefited from this should turn down the funds next time.

And your parish sees no harm in how alcohol contributes harm to one's health but foregoes that in order to raise money to help a battered women's shelter where the women were most likely hurt by husbands who drink heavily and become violent in their behaviour. If a drunk parishioner drives away from a parish function and hurts or kills someone is the parish held responsible?

Yes, it does bother me and others who have a concern for any such methods used by a so-called "Christian" church to raise funds.

 

[Bavarian]

First, we do not sell alcohol, we give it away for a free-will offering. A cousin of mine, raised Lutheran, now Baptist told me he did not see anything wrong with drinking adult beverages as long as in moderation. Why did he come to this? He saw the Ministers, while shunning alcohol, stuffing themselves on food at the buffet at church parties. Everything in moderation.

You probably have some strong faith, but it is your way, not ours. We follow the Church founded by Christ, and we all hope to get to the same place. Only we know it is an ongoing struggle, not an "Oh, I am born-again and no more worries!" Plus, I believe being born-again means being baptised by the sprinkling of water. That is our entrance to the highway to Heaven.

We will not know if we are saved until death and personal Judgement.

 

[onel0126]

And your parish sees no harm in how alcohol contributes harm to one's health but foregoes that in order to raise money to help a battered women's shelter where the women were most likely hurt by husbands who drink heavily and become violent in their behaviour. If a drunk parishioner drives away from a parish function and hurts or kills someone is the parish held responsible?

Yes, it does bother me and others who have a concern for any such methods used by a so-called "Christian" church to raise funds.

So, I suppose if you had a church and they served pizza at youth group functions or chips and dip they would be harming children's health, no?

And please, make no mistake, my church is a Christian Church.

 

[Bavarian]

While I respect your opinion I disagree on most things. But to invoke your paranoia above shows your degree of fear. What do they have to fear from people leaving? Don't say money--trust me that's not it. People have been leaving the RCC for decades--because the RCC will not change its stance on social issues. They find a church where they can make an altar call, feel good about being born again and go about their merry way still a sinner--kind of a one and done type of deal. Great friends of mine left the RCC this summer--I asked why--I was told by the wife, my kid doesn't like Mass--he thinks its boring. I asked what he liked about their new church--she said he plays basketball and video games and gets jiggy with the "praise music."

Did they ever go to St. Peter Claver? They act like a bunch of holy rollers.

 

[onel0126]

He saw the Ministers, while shunning alcohol, stuffing themselves on food at the buffet at church parties. Everything in moderation.

Or he could have been like my born again baptist preacher neighbor growing up.....After he committed suicide, and my family helped his widow move, we found cases of liquor in the basement and a failry substantial porn collection

 

[Starman3000m]

So, I suppose if you had a church and they served pizza at youth group functions or chips and dip they would be harming children's health, no?

And please, make no mistake, my church is a Christian Church.

I have never heard of over eating pizza and feasting on chips and dip causing kids to ride their bikes recklessly.

 

[Starman3000m]

Or he could have been like my born again baptist preacher neighbor growing up.....After he committed suicide, and my family helped his widow move, we found cases of liquor in the basement and a failry substantial porn collection

Preachers are sure enough prone to downfalls in their ministry when they are out of touch in their walk with God - just like priests and bishops of the RCC.