seekeroftruth
Well-Known Member
Quran 18:13. We relate to you their story in truth. They were youths who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.
14. And We strengthened their hearts, when they stood up and said, “Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth; we will not call on any god besides Him, for then we would have spoken an outrage.”
15. “These people, our people, have taken to themselves gods other than Him. Why do they not bring a clear proof concerning them? Who, then, does greater wrong than he who invents lies and attributes them to God?”
16. “Now that you have withdrawn from them, and from what they worship besides God, take shelter in the cave. And your Lord will unfold His mercy for you, and will set your affair towards ease.”
17. You would have seen the sun, when it rose, veering away from their cave towards the right, and when it sets, moving away from them to the left, as they lay in the midst of the cave. That was one of God’s wonders. He whom God guides is truly guided; but he whom He misguides, for him you will find no directing friend.
This is the commentary....
The memorable story of the “seven sleepers”, with whom the companions of the Cave and the Inscription are identified, is a story of the reign of the Emperor Decius. Seven noble youths of Ephesus, it is said, took refuge in a cave to escape Decius’ persecution. But the Emperor, eventually learning this, ordered the entrance to the cave to be firmly secured with a pile of large stones. It is stated that the youths fell asleep as soon as they were shut up in the cave, and awoke 187 years after this in the reign of Theodosius, when the stones were removed by the slaves of one Adollius to supply building material for some edifice. They then sent one of their number, Jamblicus, to bring food for them from the city, but he was taken to the judge on presenting a coin of the reign of Decius, and thus the youths were discovered. It is related that the Emperor himself saw their radiant faces. This is the account given by Gibbon. But some state that these youths remained in that condition for 375 years. That there may be a modicum of truth underlying this story is not only most probable, but almost certain, for the story could not otherwise have found such wide prevalence. The story as narrated in the Qur’ån does not credit the unnatural incidents of the above account. It only speaks of some men having taken refuge in a dark cave on account of a religious persecution; where and when it does not state. That is all that is stated in this section of the story, and apparently it seems to be continued in the third, while, according to another view, the third section may be a prophetic description of the later growth of Christianity itself. Taking, however, the first view, what is related in the third section is that, after they had rested for a part of a day, they made arrangements to get their food from outside, and remained in this condition for “a number of years” (v. 11), but were subsequently discovered, and an edifice being built at the mouth of the cave caused their death. It mentions conjectures as to their number and the number of years they remained in the cave, but does not go beyond saying that there were some men who remained in the cave for some years. There is another very plausible suggestion that the persons referred to here were Joseph of Arimathaea and some other early Christians, their place of refuge being Glastonbury in England, which on account of its northern position well answers the description of the Cave as given in the Qur’ån. According to William of Malmesbury, Joseph of Arimathaea “was sent to Britain by St. Philip, and having received a small island in Somersetshire, there constructed with twisted twigs the first Christian church in Britain, afterwards to become the abbey of Glastonbury. The legend says that his staff planted in the ground became a thorn, flowering twice a year” (En. Br., Art. “Joseph of Arimathaea”). In the tenth edition of En. Br. Joseph of Arimathaea is said to have “wandered into Britain in the year 63”. “The Glastonbury thorn, which is said to be a distinct variety, was regularly visited by pilgrims until it was destroyed about the Reformation times.” Again we find in the En. Br. under Glastonbury: “According to the legends which grew up under the care of the monks, the first church of Glastonbury was a little wattled building erected by Joseph of Arimathaea as the leader of the twelve apostles sent over to Britain from Gaul by St. Philip”. The legends of the “Holy Grail” again connect the name of Joseph of Arimathaea with Britain. According to one of these the Grail, which was the dish of the last supper, was confined to the care of Joseph, while according to another, “the Grail is said to have followed Joseph to Britain” (En. Br., Art. “Grail”). All these may be legends, but they are certainly not without an undercurrent of truth. The connection of the name of Joseph of Arimathaea with Britain is the strong central fact underlying them all. What makes it still more significant is the fact that Joseph of Arimathaea, who appears very prominently in the closing scenes of the Gospels, so much so that one Gospel looks upon him as a disciple of Jesus, altogether disappears from the history of Christianity as imaged in the propagandic efforts of the apostles. Does this not show that he had changed the scene of his exertions? May then Joseph of Arimathaea and his companions be taken as being referred to in the story of the Companions of the Cave and the Inscription? If an answer could be found in the affirmative, then England could definitely be said to be the Cave referred to in the Holy Qur’ån, and the description of the Cave given in v. 17 well applies to it; see 17a. But even if our answer to that question is in the negative, the story itself is not without a deeper meaning, and more statements than one show that there is a reference to the history of Christianity itself in the story
This is to show that the early followers of Christianity were Unitarians.
The verse does not speak of any miraculous change in the sun’s course; it does not speak of any change at all. It simply describes the position of the cave, which was so situated that it did not admit sunshine. This could easily happen in a cave with its mouth to the north, situated in the northern hemisphere and above the tropic of cancer. In fact, the description applies to any country in the northern hemisphere north of the tropic of cancer. The whole of Europe thus, in one sense, answers the description of the cave. It is a fact that Christianity spread first in Europe.
My sincerest apologies to those of you who read yesterday's verses.... they were from the wrong chapter.... thus a good example of what happens when someone who doesn't have a real clue tries to do something like this. I got my chapters wrong.... totally my fault... and ironically.... it was titled "consequences". I should have been watching what I was doing.This morning... the verses are either about the origins of the Christian Church in Europe or about the beginnings of the Quran. Joseph... the best friend of Jesus of Nazareth..... is referred to liberally in the commentary. According to the commentary... Joseph was sent to an island in Europe and built a building that became a famous church in England.
There is a story about how a gang of young men.... took shelter in a cave... and when the Emperor found out about them... he ordered the cave to be sealed. It was sealed for 375 years until the next Emperor found out about the cave and ordered it to be opened... and they found the guys alive. OK.... I'm not one to put God in a Box... maybe that's how they found the Quran... maybe God supplied everything those young men needed to live in the cave for 375 years.... I can buy that... while they worked on the Quran to correct the errors the church was spreading without written copies of the Bible to keep them straight. I mean, think about it.... If God wants a correct version of the Bible... wouldn't He be capable of creating a pristine climate for humans to write it? But... I have to admit... even I think shutting young men up in a cave for 375 years away from the sun.... seems a little bizarre.
It seems more likely the author was using something like a parable to get his point across. The Christian Church in the 600's had been corrupted. The Christian Church met and decided what books would go in the Bible during the 300's AD. All that talk about Mary being a goddess was probably started some time after that and Muslims just would not buy it. It had been about 375 years from the time the Christian Church put their Bible together... and the Muslims said "hey wait.... Mary was not a goddess so, according to the Muslims, Jesus could not be the Son of God. So.... although the author of the Quran used the north facing cave... and the shutting of the cave to tell the story.... it was really the differences of opinions that were held for all those decades.
I don't think this is about men surviving in a cave for 375 years... I think it's more about humans surviving without the truth for 375 years.
But what do I know... I can't even keep the chapters straight... my apologies again.
Is it possible these verses are talking about the "monks" who copied the Bible word for word by hand to produce a Bible in the form agreed upon by the Church? Maybe this is saying they toiled all those years believing what they were copying to be the truth, when it was really tweaked just enough to make it fake. I offer this link titled.... "Coming of Christianity to Ireland".
The title of this section... "Dwellers in the cave"
