seekeroftruth
Well-Known Member
Quran 18:90. Until, when he reached the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no shelter from it.
91. And so it was. We had full knowledge of what he had.
92. Then he pursued a course.
93. Until, when he reached the point separating the two barriers, he found beside them a people who could barely understand what is said.
94. They said, “O Zul-Qarnain, the Gog and Magog are spreading chaos in the land. Can we pay you, to build between us and them a wall?”
Short verses.... long commentary!
The three journeys alluded to seem to have been undertaken with the object of strengthening the frontiers of the empire, the most important of these being that spoken of in v. 93, the part of the frontier between the Caspian and the Black Seas, where the Caucasus afforded a natural protection against the attacks of the Scythians. Darius goes first westward to the Black Sea (vv. 85, 86). Then he undertakes an eastward journey — the land of the rising sun. The description of the people found here, a people who had no shelter from the sun, is a description of the barbarous aboriginal tribes on the shores of the Caspian. The En. Br. says in the article on Media: “The names in the Assyrian inscriptions prove that the tribes in the Zagros and the northern parts of Media were not Iranians nor Indo-Europeans, but an aboriginal population, like the early inhabitants of Armenia, perhaps connected with the numerous tribes of the Caucasus. We can see how the Iranian element gradually became dominant: princes with Iranian names occasionally occur as the rulers of these tribes. But the Galae, Tapuri, Cadusii, Amardi, Utii, and other tribes in Northern Media and on the shores of the Caspian, were not Iranians”.
The two mountains are the mountains of Armenia and Azarbaijan. The people settling there spoke a different language and could not understand the Iranian language.
This verse brings us face to face with an all-important subject, viz., the identity of Gog and Magog. The Bible references to Gog and Magog are somewhat loose. In Gen. 10:2 and 1 Chron. 1:5, “Magog is mentioned as the second son of Japheth,between Gomer and Madai, Gomer representing the Cimmerians and Madai the Medes. Magog must be a people located east of the Cimmerians and west of the Medes. But in the list of nations, Gen. 10, the term connotes rather the complex of barbarian peoples dwelling at the extreme north and north-east of the geographical survey covered by that chapter. ... In Ezek. 38:2 Magog occurs as the name of a country; in Ezek. 39:6 as that of a northern people, the leader of whom is Gog” (Jewish En., Art. “Gog and Magog”). “Josephus identifies them with the Scythians, a name which among the classical writers stands for a number of unknown ferocious tribes. According to Jerome, Magog was situated beyond the Caucasus near the Caspian Sea”. The En. Br. considers the traditional identification of Gog and Magog with the Scythians to be “plausible”, and then adds: “This plausible opinion has been generally followed”, with this reservation, that the word may be applied to “any or all of the numerous but partially known tribes of the north; and any attempt to assign a more definite locality to Magog can only be very hesitatingly made”.
All these writers have, however, not paid sufficient attention to the words of Ezek. 38:2: “Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal”. Tubal and Meshech are almost always mentioned together, and their identification has been a task of great difficulty, so much so that a renowned Biblical critic suggests the names of certain nations in South Palestine. But this contradicts the views of ancient writers like Josephus, who settle the Magog north of the Caucasus. If we go, however, to the north of the Caucasus, we find still two rivers bearing the names of Tobal and Moskoa, on the latter of which is situated the ancient city of Moscow, and on the former the more recent town of Tobolsk. It seems almost certain that these two rivers received their names from the two tribes of Ezek. 38:2, the Tubal and Meshech, and then gave their names to the two above-mentioned cities, thus keeping the names of these tribes. This view is in accordance with the opinion of Josephus, who identifies Magog with the Scythians, for “throughout classical literature Scythia generally meant all regions to the north and north-east of the Black Sea, and a Scythian any barbarian coming from these parts”.
It is clear from the above that the name Magog stands for tribes which occupied territories to the north and north-east of the Black Sea, tribes which gave their names directly or indirectly to the towns of Tobolsk and Moscow
There is, however, another point worth considering, and that is the gigantic effigies of Gog and Magog in Guildhall, London. “It is known,” says the En. Br., “that effigies similar to the present existed in London as early as the time of Henry V”. An explanation of this remarkable circumstance is given by Geoffrey of Monmouth: “Gaemot or Gaemagot (probably a corrupted form of Gog and Magog) was a giant who, along with his brother Gorineous, tyrannized in the western horn of England until slain by foreign invaders” (En. Br., Art. “Gog and Magog”). It is very difficult to speak with anything bordering on accuracy about the early connections of different races, but the preservation of the effigies of Gog and Magog in England, which can be traced to a very early period in English history, makes it probable that the Angles or the Saxons had in very ancient times some connection with the Scythians or other tribes living north of the Caucasus or the Black Sea. The relations of the different nations in early history are very complicated, and it is out of place to enter into any such discussion here. But it may be noted that the Goths, who are considered to be the easternmost of the Teutonic races, are said to have migrated into Scythia (En. Br., “Goths”), which shows the existence of connection between the two races. And again, “the Batharnae also, who in the third century B.C. invaded and settled in the regions between the Carpathians and the Black Sea, are said by several ancient writers to have been Teutonic by origin, though they had largely intermarried with the native inhabitants” (En. Br., “Teutonic Peoples”).
It is thus clear that the ancestors of the present Teutonic and Slav races are the Gog and Magog spoken of in the Holy Qur’ån. The effigies of Gog and Magog in London and the names of Tobal and Moskoa, occuring in the Bible, are clear indications of this fact. Next we come to the statement that the tribes found by Darius between Azerbaijan and the Armenian mountains were constantly harassed by their northern neighbours, the Scythians. History bears evidence to the truth of this statement. The Scythians, or, according to some writers, the Sacae, constantly troubled Asia. According to Herodotus the Scyths ruled Media for twenty-eight years (En. Br., Art. “Scythia”). “About 512 Darius undertook a war against the Scythians ... The purpose of this war can only have been to attack the nomadic Turanian tribes in the rear, and thus to secure peace on the northern frontier of the empire” (En. Br., Art. “Darius”). The portion which I give in italics shows that Darius exerted himself to his utmost in securing peace on the northern frontier of his empire, where the Caucasus, bounded on both sides by the Black and Caspian Seas, afforded a natural protection.
The barrier referred to in this verse, and described in the verses that follow, is the famous wall at Derbent (Ar. Darband). An account of this wall is given by Muslim geographers and historians, for instance, in Mara©id al-I∆∆ilå‘ and Ibn al-Faqßh. The following account, however, taken from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, should be more convincing: “Derbent or Darband, a town of Caucasia, in the province of Daghestan, on the western shore of the Caspian ... It occupies a narrow strip of land beside the sea, from which it climbs up the steep heights inland ... And to the south lies the seaward extremity of the Caucasian wall (50 miles long), otherwise known as Alexander’s Wall, blocking up the narrow pass of the Iron Gate or Caspian Gate (Portae Albanae, or Portae Caspae). This, when enitre, had a height of 29 feet and a thickness of about 10 feet, and with its iron gates and numerous watch-towers formed a valuable defence of the Persian frontier.” (Italics in the last sentence are mine, for which see the next footnote.) The misnomer Alexander’s Wall seems to have been due to the mistake made by Muslim historians in supposing Dhu-l-qarnain to be Alexander.
Still clear as mud.... but here is what I got out of it.
Three boys got off the Ark when it finally found dry ground. There was Japheth, Shem, and Ham. Japheth's people went north..... and apparently through the generations they started fighting with Shem's people and Ham's people. Japheth's people might even have been as far east as London, England. But Moscow is definitely mentioned here. Japheth's people built a wall where there was not natural boundary. No... this is not a great wall of China.... it spans west to east, not north to south.
Gog and Magog..... Magog may be the nation and Gog the ruler... according to one sentence in the commentary. I'll have to read more.... of course.
