Really can't make stuff this up. But they did.

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

So. How's this for the, shake-your-head, unbelievable, get-money-anyway-you-can, trick. Old Bayside Road, up in Chesapeake Beach, of which a school, Beach Elementary School is located, is, and has been, a 15 mph road. Even though there have been no reported accidents; No hit and runs; No near death experiences of any child or parent being run over; No child or parent being run over; well you know, the speed limit is 15 mph after all; In order to ensure, and, "improve the safety of citizens walking across the road to school", they are going to INCREASE the speed limit to 20 mph, only within a half-mile radius of the school, so they can install a speed camera. Well, because, didn't you know, that the State of Maryland regulations require a minimum speed limit on any road of 20 mph for speed cameras? That's right. So, basically, from the intersection at Rt 261(Bayside Rd), then for about 2000 ft down Old Bayside Rd, the speed limit will be 20mph with a speed camera installed to generate more revenue for the town of Chesapeake Beach. And since it's a County road, the town had to ask for permission from the commissioners to do so, and was summarily granted the permission. What they have effectively accomplished is increasing the speed limit to 31 mph, since, I'm sure you all know, that speed cameras, in Maryland, are not activated unless the vehicle is going 12 mph over the speed limit or faster. And since everyone pretty much knows this, everyone will now be safely, (knowing the camera won't go off), be going at least 30 mph.

Portion of Old Bayside Road set to 20 mph

 

[TPD]

But it’s for the safety of the kids doncha know - nothing to do with revenue!

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

A few years ago when the camera at Beach first went in on 261 the, the Town, made a shitload, as in 2 or 3 hundred thousand, in fines the first year (got me for $80. At 0430. On successive Saturdays. Yes, they ran it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Illegally but, oh well). The next year the fines went down to under $20K. A couple Town Council members wanted to raise the fine to make up the difference.

So yeah, while I don't agree that fees and fines are designed to raise revenue I believe that in this case it is.

 

[BernieP]

A few years ago when the camera at Beach first went in on 261 the, the Town, made a shitload, as in 2 or 3 hundred thousand, in fines the first year (got me for $80. At 0430. On successive Saturdays. Yes, they ran it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Illegally but, oh well). The next year the fines went down to under $20K. A couple Town Council members wanted to raise the fine to make up the difference.

So yeah, while I don't agree that fees and fines are designed to raise revenue I believe that in this case it is.

Within the last couple of months there was a story about a cop in Dallas who was writing traffic tickets based on data he gathered during a "routine equipment" stop. Seems he was sitting on his ass most of his patrol, so he would manufacture tickets to cover his ass.
He was caught because he wrote a couple of these tickets for a woman who happened to be related to some higher up in the department. She smelled something fishy and contacted her relative.
The chief, in his interview on the story said the Dallas PD no longer had a quota, in fact, they didn't use tickets as a measure of performance.
So when a police department says, we don't have a quota, they aren't technically lying, they don't, but the officers know that tickets written are going to be used in their evaluation. The other thing that came out of the interview was the Chief pulled the plug on tickets because he realized it wasn't about safety, it was about revenue, the city had become hooked on the cash from traffic tickets.
So while one side will show you statistics on how safe it makes your streets, the other side can only rely on anecdotal evidence that where cameras have gone in, monkey business has followed. Playing games with the law in regards to school zones, cameras have been installed on roads within the legal radius, but there is no access to the school from that road. It would be like St. Mary's installing cameras on 235 between Rue Purchase and Town Creek because Green Holly and the middle school are within the legal radius, then dropping the speed limit to 30. Talk about a money maker, the county would be awash in cash. The cameras would probably break within a day from use.
Then there is the aspect that the system is leased, and it's sold as both effective and cost efficient. So if the company is making profit, and the county / town is at least breaking even if not making money, I'm a hard sell on it's all about safety.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Yes, by all means,, drive 55, 65 whatever under the influence of crack, oxy. In front of all schools!!!

Ummmm. It already had a exceptionally safe and low speed limit of 15 mph. Signs all over the place that there is a school there, just in case one could not see the massive layout of the place with the front of the building a mere 65 feet from the side of Old Bayside Road. The school sits right off, on the corner of, an intersection off the main road, Bayside Road. There are three (3) vehicle access points on Old Bayside Road to the school. The first one is 161 feet from the intersection. The second one is 339 feet from the intersection. And the third vehicle access point is 530 feet from the intersection. There are no crossings anywhere on the road from the other side of Old Bayside Road to the school. As a matter of fact, the only side walk next to the school, is on the side of Bayside Road with a speed limit of 30 mph, that ends at the intersection. If, and this is a gargantuan, 'if', if speeding past the school is really such an issue, there are far more effective ways to deal with it. A preamble to the first, is to publish the traffic study for all to see showing the length of the study period, number of cars per hour, per day, the time of day, the day of the week, etc.

First would be to have a recall election of the Mayor of Chesapeake Beach for proposing this idiotic idea to begin with, then, recalling all five of the county commissioners for not challenging the obviously, undeniably, incontrovertibly, demonstrably, unquestionably, abject stupidity, for voting to give permission, and not publicly mocking and laughing Mayor Pat "Irish" Mahoney out of the board session, and for wasting everyone's time. Second would be to have the Sheriff appear before a newly elected Board of County Commissioners at a public forum, after working hours so the public can attend, and the to the Board of Education, to explain why he can't seem to manage to have deputies patrol the roads around the school and issue tickets to speeders, which by the way, the fines are double in front of the school. The ineptness and laziness of government that extorts hundreds of millions from the pockets of taxpayers supposedly for such things already as for "public Safety", is on full display for all to see. Calvert County and Chesapeake Beach, and rightly so, is now the laughing stock of Maryland. Not because of the obvious asinine chicanery, dishonestly, deceit, and fraud perpetrated by government being in full on display, but because the people of Chesapeake Beach and Calvert County have actually allowed it to happen. The people are the dupes.

Take a look for yourself. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6836035,-76.5375768,256a,35y,355.07h/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[BOP]

Yes, by all means,, drive 55, 65 whatever under the influence of crack, oxy. In front of all schools!!!

WTF are you on about?

 

[PrchJrkr]

Somebody spiked the Geritol...

 

[OmyGawd]

It's all about the revenue, not safety. If it was about safety then the cameras would have no gray areas, 20 would be the trigger not 11 over. And since you really can't fight your "accuser" (they won't bring the camera to court or produce the certification/calibration) this is simply wrong to begin with.

 

[BernieP]

WTF are you on about?

ex cop, we are all felons, or felons waiting to happen.
BTW, case on point, put speed cameras by schools, Monday, 9/2 was a holiday. Flashing School Zone lights on CR Rd in front of Green View Knolls
TICKET TIME - but school is not in session.

Green Holly does not allow children to walk to school because there is (was) no sidewalk. Can they put cameras on MIllstone Landing and 235 and run reduced speed and red light operations 24/7?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Just got a citation in the mail from this new camera.

FYI, you can submit proof that you weren't driving (I wasn't), but they don't make it easy.

For anyone else who chooses to go this route, you can submit a defense to the local District Court. Those defenses include:

• Your plates were stolen.
• You, the registered owner, was not driving.
• Anything else the Court may deem "pertinent"

To submit a defense, you need to submit proof. A police report would suffice for bullet point #1 above, but for #2, you need to submit, via certified mail, return receipt requested, to the Court a sworn statement that you weren't driving and any evidence you have that you weren't.

https://ecode360.com/15180375

 

[vraiblonde]

a speed camera installed to generate more revenue for the town of Chesapeake Beach.

Let me just point out that if you don't speed, you won't be generating any revenue for the town.

Man, you guys would really lose it if you stayed in RV parks where the speed limit is typically 5-10mph. Normally abled people simply adjust and learn to live with it.

 

[glhs837]

You, driving an RV< should be wary, these systems traditionally

Let me just point out that if you don't speed, you won't be generating any revenue for the town.

Man, you guys would really lose it if you stayed in RV parks where the speed limit is typically 5-10mph. Normally abled people simply adjust and learn to live with it.

You, driving an RV, should be wary, these systems traditionally screw up measuring the speed of larger boxy vehicles. In Forest Heights, there was an auto parts store owner, his trucks were getting hammered. Even though he could prove using the supplied pictures that his guys were not speeding. they provided two pictures, with timing on them, a second or two apart, with three decimal place timestamps on the pics, took him almost two years and maybe 20-30K in lawyers fees. He won, as did other folks who were incorrectly issued citations using that method.

Oddly enough, after that case, they changed the pictues in the citation to only show one decimal place, making it impossible to prove your innocence. Shocker. The issue with your "Just dont speed" statement is threefold.

1. We should not ignore enforcement for profit, it's a really bad precedent to set. Because once they get used to the money, they will lie, cheat, and steal to keep the money flowing. And that has been amply demonstrated here in MD. Cameras not calibrated, cameras in places they shouldn't be, cameras placed in front of the sign that changes the speed limit. And you, the citizen cant fight them.
2. We should not ignore enforcement that doesn't increase safety. We do not, nor have we ever had, a safety issue thats caused by people speeding in school zones. There simply hasn't been a child injured or killed be a speeder in a school zone. So why do we need enforcement there? You need money, raise taxes. dont let politicians backdoor budget plus-ups because they can
3. Private law enforcement is a Bad Idea, you skip whole steps of normal procedures in the name of ensuring profits. Face your accuser? Nope. Punish the person who actually committed the offense? Nope. Waste citizens time and money trying to clear their names? Sure. Make that process 1000% harder than anormal citation becuase it cuts into profits? Of course.

 

[vraiblonde]

You, driving an RV, should be wary,

Let me stop you right there. The speed limit goes for cars as well. There is way more car traffic in the RV park than there is motorhome traffic because once you pull your motorhome in, that's it. Cars, on the other hand, are constantly going in and out.

The reason they want people crawling along is because of kids and pets that run around the park and don't necessarily look for vehicles before darting into the street. RV parks generally believe that the safety of the guests is more important than your desire to get somewhere 30 seconds faster.

And that's really what we're talking about here: a matter of seconds. One minute, tops. If you're so important that one minute will make such an enormous difference in your life, you should consider a private plane or helicopter to shuttle you around.

I honestly don't understand why people get so irate over this. When you break it down it's really not that big of a deal.

 

[nutz]

Does Optotraffic have all the camera contracts in Md.? What is the split on the take?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

...The reason they want people crawling along is because of kids and pets that run around the park and don't necessarily look for vehicles before darting into the street...

I honestly don't understand why people get so irate over this...

Because our government is using the first part of the quote as an excuse.

There has never been a kid hit or anything on this stretch of road. Yet they complained that people tend to speed there (they do), but instead of putting an officer there, they RAISE the speed limit in order to put a camera in.

Why put a camera in? Because it's a revenue stream based on a BS premise.

 

[glhs837]

Let me stop you right there. The speed limit goes for cars as well. There is way more car traffic in the RV park than there is motorhome traffic because once you pull your motorhome in, that's it. Cars, on the other hand, are constantly going in and out.

The reason they want people crawling along is because of kids and pets that run around the park and don't necessarily look for vehicles before darting into the street. RV parks generally believe that the safety of the guests is more important than your desire to get somewhere 30 seconds faster.

And that's really what we're talking about here: a matter of seconds. One minute, tops. If you're so important that one minute will make such an enormous difference in your life, you should consider a private plane or helicopter to shuttle you around.

I honestly don't understand why people get so irate over this. When you break it down it's really not that big of a deal.

Okay, your first four lines are not relevant, this has nothing to do with RV parks. I mentioned your RV because speed cameras of a certain type commonly misread those vehicles along with box trucks and busses. Again, nothing to do with RV parks.

This is about speed cameras in school zones, which is the only place MD law allows them to be placed. If you want to know why that restriction is in place, it's a simple albeit cynical reason. They can use the "it's for the children why do you want children to die like hood ornaments!!!????" club to beat opponents to death. So, in school zones, where our politicians and law enforcement say we need these to save the children, there are no cases of children being injured or killed by speeders.

Why am I irate over this, me who actually obeys speed limits in school zones and RV parks, and generally restricts myself to 8-9 over everywhere else? Not because it affects me personally. But because I like government best when it doesn't lie cheat and steal. When it does, we should all be irate.

1. They lie when they say these systems are needed for safety. They are not and I can nail that down with verifiable facts all day long.
2. They cheat when they make rules for the deployment of these systems to make them more palatable to the public, but then blow those rules off in the name of more citations. 1/2 mile radius, only on roads that directly interact with the school, both initial and regular inspections and certifications.
3. They steal when, after getting caught doing the above, they simply don't even bother to refund the money they took illegally.

You should find it telling that our county commissioner who works in the industry, when faced with red light cameras being deployed here in his backyard, went public that he was opposed. I think under the "Don't sh%^ where you live" rule.

Does Optotraffic have all the camera contracts in Md.? What is the split on the take?

No, each county/municipality is free to contract with whomever they want and to negotiate their own deal.

 

[BernieP]

Just got a citation in the mail from this new camera.

FYI, you can submit proof that you weren't driving (I wasn't), but they don't make it easy.

For anyone else who chooses to go this route, you can submit a defense to the local District Court. Those defenses include:

• Your plates were stolen.
• You, the registered owner, was not driving.
• Anything else the Court may deem "pertinent"

To submit a defense, you need to submit proof. A police report would suffice for bullet point #1 above, but for #2, you need to submit, via certified mail, return receipt requested, to the Court a sworn statement that you weren't driving and any evidence you have that you weren't.

https://ecode360.com/15180375

do you have to rat out the driver?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

do you have to rat out the driver?

That's one option. But the way I read it, you don't have to. Only provide proof that you, the accused, were not driving.

I would think the 5th Amendment would come into play here.

 

[RPMDAD]

I am getting a little confused here i thought there was and has been for a very long time a speed camera at Beach Elementary school. Are there 2 of them now?

 

[BernieP]

The "school zone" loop hole has also been abused. They have found speed cameras placed on roads that have no access to the school, but are within the radius. For example, Green Holly might just be close enough to 235 that the county could place a camera on 235 near the intersection with MIllstone Landing Rd. Then drop the speed limit to 20 MPH say 1000 ft of the light on all 4 sides.
That is what some of the areas were or are still doing.

Speaking of Green Holly, they don't allow kids to walk or ride bikes to school. I wonder if Beach Elementary School has the same policy.