Repealing Obamacare

[seekeroftruth]

I've worked for about 50 years. During that time I have purchased health insurance through my employer, contributed to my Social Security, and contributed to Medicare. When I started out I was making $1.00 minimum wage and still purchasing health insurance. I think I was paying $5.00 a week at first.

Now I have been disabled by cancer surgeries and finally I turned 65 and I am retired. I admit, I'm only working part time, temporary but I'm working and contributing. I still pay Medicare and Social Security. I also still have to buy health insurance. It's deducted every month from my social security check.

Now on the forums it has been made known that first I have Lyme Disease which is in remission. I battled Colon Cancer. Just last week I suffered through my fourth kidney stone! These are all now pre-existing conditions.

Sure I'm permanently insured by Medicare but Medicare only pays a portion of certain illness. Think of it as a shabby cheap health insurance. Even on Medicare and my self paid supplemental insurance I have major expenses. One test, just one test to identify the return of colon cancer costs $400.00. If a kidney stone lands me in the hospital, I have to pay out $190 a day. I'm lucky that the insurance company is required to cover those pre-existing conditions under Obamacare.

If the Republican party wins the White House and maintains the GOP, they will repeal the Affordable Care Act [ACA = Obamacare]. That means the insurance companies will no longer be required to cover my pre-existing conditions. I won't be able to afford my supplemental health insurance.

It's a death sentence for me.

 

[Clem72]

Health insurance is probably the one major thing I split with many conservatives about. We pay more than anyone else (in taxes), but receive minimal benefits and still have to cover our own insurance.

I'm not smart enough to know the perfect answer, but I got a crazy idea.

How about we outlaw medical "insurance". Insurance in general was never intended to cover small expenses, day to day stuff. It's intended to cover catastrophic costs, but by forcing the entire industry to use the insurance model we stifle competition.

So, let everyone pay out of pocket for prescription drugs. For doctor's appointments. For minor elective surgeries. This will drive down the costs as every doctor and medicine no longer costs the exact same (whatever your insurance co-pay is), but has to actually advertise real rates, not BS inflated rates that insurance companies can negotiate on but you cannot.

Then, the second part of my idea is that all of those taxes we pay can instead cover only catastrophic costs, and cover them for everybody.

This should drive down the cost of routine procedures and most medicines. And as the government would be the only insurer for catastrophic costs, it could negotiate the best prices. Of course this assumes the medical/pharma industry doesn't lobby to disallow the government to negotiate at all (like is the case at present).

 

[GURPS]

why is your health care my problem ?
why is my health care YOUR Problem ?

I've Arthritis [psoriatic type] and I've passed a few Kidney Stones as well
.... my Arthritis is controlled with drugs that cost [retail] $ 1800 bucks a dose
.... but with insurance and Co-Pays and drug company add ons my outa pocket last time was $ 0


since I have changed JOBS my current employer [laughingly] offers HC @ 1200 bucks a month - so I purchase coverage through MD Healthcare Exchanges ...

there was a time when CONSUMERS controlled health care costs in the form of Mutual Aid Societies ..... but doctors pushed back



From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State: Fraternal Societies and Social Services, 1890-1967 Paperback – May 29, 2000

During the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, more Americans belonged to fraternal societies than to any other kind of voluntary association, with the possible exception of churches. Despite the stereotypical image of the lodge as the exclusive domain of white men, fraternalism cut across race, class, and gender lines to include women, African Americans, and immigrants. Exploring the history and impact of fraternal societies in the United States, David Beito uncovers the vital importance they had in the social and fiscal lives of millions of American families.

Much more than a means of addressing deep-seated cultural, psychological, and gender needs, fraternal societies gave Americans a way to provide themselves with social-welfare services that would otherwise have been inaccessible, Beito argues. In addition to creating vast social and mutual aid networks among the poor and in the working class, they made affordable life and health insurance available to their members and established hospitals, orphanages, and homes for the elderly. Fraternal societies continued their commitment to mutual aid even into the early years of the Great Depression, Beito says, but changing cultural attitudes and the expanding welfare state eventually propelled their decline.

 

[Gilligan]

If the Republican party wins the White House and maintains the GOP, they will repeal the Affordable Care Act [ACA = Obamacare]. That means the insurance companies will no longer be required to cover my pre-existing conditions. I won't be able to afford my supplemental health insurance.

It's a death sentence for me.

How do you know that? I've never seen that proposed.

Not that it matters....Obamacre is collapsing under it's own weight...dying a certain death exactly as was predicted.

 

[seekeroftruth]

Health insurance is probably the one major thing I split with many conservatives about. We pay more than anyone else (in taxes), but receive minimal benefits and still have to cover our own insurance.

I'm not smart enough to know the perfect answer, but I got a crazy idea.

How about we outlaw medical "insurance". Insurance in general was never intended to cover small expenses, day to day stuff. It's intended to cover catastrophic costs, but by forcing the entire industry to use the insurance model we stifle competition.

So, let everyone pay out of pocket for prescription drugs. For doctor's appointments. For minor elective surgeries. This will drive down the costs as every doctor and medicine no longer costs the exact same (whatever your insurance co-pay is), but has to actually advertise real rates, not BS inflated rates that insurance companies can negotiate on but you cannot.

Then, the second part of my idea is that all of those taxes we pay can instead cover only catastrophic costs, and cover them for everybody.

This should drive down the cost of routine procedures and most medicines. And as the government would be the only insurer for catastrophic costs, it could negotiate the best prices. Of course this assumes the medical/pharma industry doesn't lobby to disallow the government to negotiate at all (like is the case at present).

A compromise..... that's what I'm talking about. Instead of repealing the Affordable Care Act [Obamacare] let's put the government to work and make it affordable for everyone. I was appalled at the EpiPen stories.

Sure, I appreciate the student loans and malpractice insurance doctors have to pay. I get that.

If I can't afford health insurance [based on my pre-existing conditions] I will absolutely die an agonizing death.

 

[Gilligan]

let's put the government to work and make it affordable for everyone. :

How?..specifically. That same government created the debacle that is Obamacare.

 

[seekeroftruth]

How do you know that? I've never seen that proposed.

Not that it matters....Obamacre is collapsing under it's own weight...dying a certain death exactly as was predicted.

One of the platforms the Republicans have been working on is repealing Obamacare. It's been in just about every speech.

One of the most expensive medical issues we face is pre-existing conditions. Some insurance companies flat out refuse to cover them. That is one of the reasons Obamacare was passed in the first place. If we allow the scrapping of Obamacare.... we go back to un-insuring those with pre-existing conditions in order to allow the insurance companies to make a profit.

 

[seekeroftruth]

why is your health care my problem ?
why is my health care YOUR Problem ?

I've Arthritis [psoriatic type] and I've passed a few Kidney Stones as well
.... my Arthritis is controlled with drugs that cost [retail] $ 1800 bucks a dose
.... but with insurance and Co-Pays and drug company add ons my outa pocket last time was $ 0


since I have changed JOBS my current employer [laughingly] offers HC @ 1200 bucks a month - so I purchase coverage through MD Healthcare Exchanges ...

there was a time when CONSUMERS controlled health care costs in the form of Mutual Aid Societies ..... but doctors pushed back



From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State: Fraternal Societies and Social Services, 1890-1967 Paperback – May 29, 2000

During the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, more Americans belonged to fraternal societies than to any other kind of voluntary association, with the possible exception of churches. Despite the stereotypical image of the lodge as the exclusive domain of white men, fraternalism cut across race, class, and gender lines to include women, African Americans, and immigrants. Exploring the history and impact of fraternal societies in the United States, David Beito uncovers the vital importance they had in the social and fiscal lives of millions of American families.

Much more than a means of addressing deep-seated cultural, psychological, and gender needs, fraternal societies gave Americans a way to provide themselves with social-welfare services that would otherwise have been inaccessible, Beito argues. In addition to creating vast social and mutual aid networks among the poor and in the working class, they made affordable life and health insurance available to their members and established hospitals, orphanages, and homes for the elderly. Fraternal societies continued their commitment to mutual aid even into the early years of the Great Depression, Beito says, but changing cultural attitudes and the expanding welfare state eventually propelled their decline.

I have been paying for the health care of others since I went to work at the age of 15. We've all been paying it.

When someone who does not have health insurance they go to Urgent Care or [even more expensive] the ER. It is required that they be treated but they walk out without paying the bill. That cost is then passed through [as overhead] to the insured. It's a fact of life. We've been paying for each other's health care for as long as I've been working.

I've looked into insurance which is basically the same as Mutual Aid. I got some paperwork from a church I attended years ago. They wouldn't cover pre-existing conditions because it's not affordable.

 

[Gilligan]

One of the platforms the Republicans have been working on is repealing Obamacare. It's been in just about every speech.

O

You've been missing the rest and listening only to soundbites. Every single proposal I've seen put forward will "replace" Obamacare and keep many of popular elements like the handling of pre-existing conditions.

Since Obamacare is already a failure and only a short time away from total collapse, what does Hillary propose to replace it with??

 

[Gilligan]

When someone who does not have health insurance they go to Urgent Care or [even more expensive] the ER. It is required that they be treated but they walk out without paying the bill.

Weird. I've refused to pay for health insurance for over a decade now and have never been able to "walk out without paying the bill".

 

[seekeroftruth]

How?..specifically. That same government created the debacle that is Obamacare.

The Dems put the Affordable Care Act in place as a beginning.

Now we need to get costs under control and amend the act. The EpiPen debacle is just one example of the work that needs to be done. We need to take on the top heavy insurance, drug, and medical expense head on. Your primary care doctor isn't making money.... the people at the top are making the money.... and many of them aren't even doctors. Think about it.... how much does it cost to manufacture the EpiPen? How much are they charging?

 

[seekeroftruth]

Weird. I've refused to pay for health insurance for over a decade now and have never been able to "walk out without paying the bill".

You are one of the good people who pays their bills. There should be a catastrophic insurance available for you so that if you have a heart attack or cancer you are covered but you pick up an affordable bill if you have to go to the doctor for the flu or a sprained ankle.

Without the Affordable Care Act, guaranteeing me affordable insurance that covers my pre-existing conditions.... it's a death sentence for me.

 

[Gilligan]

The Dems put the Affordable Care Act in place as a beginning.

:

No they did not. It was sold as the "be all, end all", "keep your doctor" and "reduce annual premiums for the average family by $2500". I was there...I remember.

 

[Gilligan]

You are one of the good people who pays their bills. There should be a catastrophic insurance available for you so that if you have a heart attack or cancer you are covered but you pick up an affordable bill if you have to go to the doctor for the flu or a sprained ankle.:

You really have not been paying attention. The only insurance I could buy now is effectively "catastrophic coverage only" given the incredibly large deductibles that now characterize policies since Obamacare ruined everything. What was once considered "catastrophic coverage" is now the norm..except now it costs one hell of a lot more.

 

[tommyjo]

You've been missing the rest and listening only to soundbites. Every single proposal I've seen put forward will "replace" Obamacare and keep many of popular elements like the handling of pre-existing conditions.

Since Obamacare is already a failure and only a short time away from total collapse, what does Hillary propose to replace it with??

You seem to have nothing but soundbites to offer in return.

The Dems don't want to "replace" Obamacare...they want to amend or enhance it.

The Republicans simple want to repeal it...they have no plans to replace it with anything.

You obviously aren't paying any attention to anything other than right wing sound bites...the poor go into the hospital all the time...they are treated and they leave without paying...because they don't have the money...that is one reason why health care and by extension health insurance is so damned expensive...those who can pay are paying for those who can't.

I know...I know...your Mr. BSD and you own a business and you went to a fancy college...which makes you omnipotent...because you read Red State.

 

[GURPS]

Since Obamacare is already a failure and only a short time away from total collapse, what does Hillary propose to replace it with??

Single Payer .... the European Model

if you are old - looking at you 'seeker of truth' - you sit on endless waiting lists for treatment or your are deemed too old to save and are giving 'end of life' counseling and encouraged to 'not be a burden' to your children

if you were appalled by the Epi-Pen Story, why aren't you keeping up with what goes on in the UK -


Overcrowded Hospitals Overwhelm U.K.'s National Health Service


free does not mean good care

 

[Gilligan]

Y
The Republicans simple want to repeal it...they have no plans to replace it with anything.

Y.

You are flat out a liar. Just because you get paid to spew your garbage does nothing to enhance it's veracity. Nothing. There have been proposals to fix/amend/replace the Obamacare mess around since before it was even passed, you moron. There are even more such now.

 

[Lurk]

do you really expect her to know what "veracity" means?

 

[Hijinx]

How can anyone in good conscience levy a fine on people who cannot afford to pay for their ridiculously overly expensive insurance.

Why would any young person buy an insurance policy that was over priced and had a $2,000 dollar deductible.

 

[Clem72]

Weird. I've refused to pay for health insurance for over a decade now and have never been able to "walk out without paying the bill".

You're not doing it right. Before walking out you must first demand they give you some dilauded for your sickle cell pain (because you are allergic to all other pain medicines), and get you a sandwich because your hungry, and last a taxi voucher because the ambulance won't drop you off at Walmart.