Roe Memo Leak

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Read some of this the other day --

When Alito said that he had a pretty good idea who leaked the memo regarding Dobbs last year - but had no solid evidence that would hold up - that's when for the first time - the left thinks it was a conservative.

Un-BY-GOD-believable. What in the hell - why would it be in the interest of the RIGHT to EVER leak such a thing?

This wasn't even a vain thought balloon - it's what they believe and were shocked to hear Alito say it's not a conservative person.

While we're at it - it's been a year. Today. Been a year and we've caught all kinds of baddies committing all sorts of heinous crimes. This is a potential pool of I think Judge Alito said, 38 persons. You know, homicide detectives would LOVE to have their suspect pool be that small. And they got bupkis.

And see, with the way our law enforcement has been at the federal level - it's hard to believe that if the most likely suspect was conservative that they wouldn't move INSTANTLY under the current administration. You have to think that if they have ANY IDEA who it is, the precaution they're taking is because it would cast doubt on the wrong person.


BUT - - -

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVATION to leak that the SCOTUS was considering overturning Wade? I seriously can ONLY THINK OF ONE. Outrage on the left. And that's what happened.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
What's your point?

The outrage was at the decision which happened regardless of the leak. So the leak and leaker really don't matter.

What matters is a corrupt SC making decisions based on influence pedaling ( Roberts and Thomas) and making decision wildly out of step with the wants of the majority of the country.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
You know damn well it was a Democrat. If it were a Republican they'd be outed by now, splashed all over the news, and have mobs of psychotic progbots raging in front of their house threatening to kill them and their children.

It was obviously a Democrat.


You guys love playing the victim

Those mean democratic took my terrible beer by being nice to a trans person!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
You guys love playing the victim

Those mean democratic took my terrible beer by being nice to a trans person!!!!!!!!!!
Show me where anyone said that!

We'll all wait while you strain your childish imagination to pretzel a reply.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
The outrage was at the decision which happened regardless of the leak. So the leak and leaker really don't matter.

Well, that, and it's likely a crime, since it is misappropriation of intellectual property.
And it led to things like an attempted assassination.

What matters is a corrupt SC making decisions based on influence pedaling ( Roberts and Thomas) and making decision wildly out of step with the wants of the majority of the country.

Pedaling? Like, on a bike? ("Peddling").

And here's the problem with the left - they think the public SHOULD have a say in the interpretation of law. You know, just like how people are nowadays, tried in the court of public opinion, rather than by the law and evidence.

SCOTUS renders opinion based on the law and the Constitution - not what people want. It wouldn't matter if every last person in the country supported abortion. Don't like it? Change the Constitution. It happens.

As it turns out, RBG herself thought the grounds for rendering Roe was extremely bad. You can look it up - there's a video.

But in fact, NOW that the deciion is returned to the states - where it always should have been - it can be adjudicated THERE, just as things like the death penalty are decided.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
Well, that, and it's likely a crime, since it is misappropriation of intellectual property.
And it led to things like an attempted assassination.



Pedaling? Like, on a bike? ("Peddling").

And here's the problem with the left - they think the public SHOULD have a say in the interpretation of law. You know, just like how people are nowadays, tried in the court of public opinion, rather than by the law and evidence.

SCOTUS renders opinion based on the law and the Constitution - not what people want. It wouldn't matter if every last person in the country supported abortion. Don't like it? Change the Constitution. It happens.

As it turns out, RBG herself thought the grounds for rendering Roe was extremely bad. You can look it up - there's a video.

But in fact, NOW that the deciion is returned to the states - where it always should have been - it can be adjudicated THERE, just as things like the death penalty are decided.

Since you want to be an ass you misspelled decision.

It is work product not intellectual property. it is not trademarked

No one attempted to assassinate anyone you drama queen


Well then why did they overturn established law In ROE?

They made a wholly new interpretation of settled law.

The only thing that changed was the balance of conservatives on the court two of whom have now triggered a congressional hearing into ethics and regulation of the SC. The investigation will address their lack of disclosure trips, donations, real estate purchases and other various forms of income received from people with business before the court.


Leaving it up to the states is not fair to the poor, victims of incest, underage people. Many poor people cant afford to leave their state or travel to another state for needed medical care. And many cant afford to take the time off work.

This will result in many unwanted pregnancies some of whom will be victims of incest and rape. Amy Coney Barrett acknowledge as much when she said this would provide a domestic source of infants suitable for adoption.

It's cruel and senseless. Combine this with the removal of sex education in schools and we will go back in time to the 80's with an epidemic of poor single mothers and under educated and uncared for children.
 
Last edited:

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
As it turns out, RBG herself thought the grounds for rendering Roe was extremely bad. You can look it up - there's a video.

Surely you aren't asking that mindless dolt to look something up and inform herself when it's so much easier for her to skim blog headlines and puke them back up on here?

This is my biggest problem with these boneheads, besides that they're violent pedophiles: they don't know sh*t about ****, all they know how to do is copycat each other with soundbites they saw somewhere. If you ask them to elaborate on their comments, they start flipping out and getting abusive because the short answer is: they have no idea what they're talking about.

That's why I rarely interact with them. You might as well argue with your cat about the unsanitary practice of licking one's butthole.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Hey @SamSpade ? I rest my case:

Since you want to be an ass you misspelled decision.

It is work product not intellectual property. it is not trademarked

No one attempted to assassinate anyone you drama queen


Well then why did they overturn established law In ROE?

They made a wholly new interpretation of settled law.

The only thing that changed was the balance of conservatives on the court two of whom have now triggered a congressional hearing into ethics and regulation of the SC. The investigation will address their lack of disclosure trips, donations, real estate purchases and other various forms of income received from people with business before the court.


Leaving it up to the states is not fair to the poor, victims of incest, underage people. Many poor people cant afford to leave their state or travel to another state for needed medical care. And many cant afford to take the time off work.

This will result in many unwanted pregnancies some of whom will be victims of incest and rape. Amy Coney Barrett acknowledge as much when she said this would provide a domestic source of infants suitable for adoption.

It's cruel and senseless. Combine this with the removal of sex education in schools and we will go back in time to the 80's with an epidemic of poor single mothers and under educated and uncared for children.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Surely you aren't asking that mindless dolt to look something up and inform herself when it's so much easier for her to skim blog headlines and puke them back up on here?
Wouldn't have known it posted at all if not for the fact I saw your post was number THREE.
Once I read it, I remembered why I had it blocked in the first place. A mouth-breather almost too stupid to live.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Jeopardy Clue:
The Dobbs memo leaker
Nashville Shooter Manifesto
Epstein Island Visitor list.
JFK file

Answer:
What are 3 4 things that will never be revealed?
Had to scratch Roswell, NM off the list. Because the government will literally tell you about extra-terrestrials before it will tell you who the bad actors are.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Since you want to be an ass you misspelled decision.
Well THAT was a typo - you just don't know which word to use,

It is work product not intellectual property. it is not trademarked

That would be for the courts to decide.

No one attempted to assassinate anyone you drama queen
Actually, Nicholas Roske is in jail at the moment.

Well then why did they overturn established law In ROE?

Elaborate. What law?

Leaving it up to the states is not fair to the poor, victims of incest, underage people. Many poor people cant afford to leave their state or travel to another state for needed medical care. And many cant afford to take the time off work.
You don't get that according to the Constitution, that's where it belongs. You don't get to weight pros and cons of the decision - you decide based on the law. Roe was a horrendous decision and was further exacerbated by attempts to MAKE LAW from the bench. For example, setting restrictions on what could be done per trimester. SCOTUS has no business "making law".

The great thing about it now, is the people of the states actually elect their legislators and they decide what laws there will be.
The PEOPLE OF THE STATE choose. I can't think of anything more fair than the people choosing if they want abortion to be the law or not, by electing their state legislature. AND - they can elect them to overturn it.

A sight more fair than nine persons deciding for you. This way, you have a voice where you didn't have one, before.


It's cruel and senseless. Combine this with the removal of sex education in schools and we will go back in time to the 80's with an epidemic of poor single mothers and under educated and uncared for children.
Then get out and vote. Vote in school board members. Participate. I don't know how SCOTUS should have anything to say about what your local school teaches.
 
Read some of this the other day --

When Alito said that he had a pretty good idea who leaked the memo regarding Dobbs last year - but had no solid evidence that would hold up - that's when for the first time - the left thinks it was a conservative.

Un-BY-GOD-believable. What in the hell - why would it be in the interest of the RIGHT to EVER leak such a thing?

This wasn't even a vain thought balloon - it's what they believe and were shocked to hear Alito say it's not a conservative person.

While we're at it - it's been a year. Today. Been a year and we've caught all kinds of baddies committing all sorts of heinous crimes. This is a potential pool of I think Judge Alito said, 38 persons. You know, homicide detectives would LOVE to have their suspect pool be that small. And they got bupkis.

And see, with the way our law enforcement has been at the federal level - it's hard to believe that if the most likely suspect was conservative that they wouldn't move INSTANTLY under the current administration. You have to think that if they have ANY IDEA who it is, the precaution they're taking is because it would cast doubt on the wrong person.


BUT - - -

WHAT WOULD BE THE MOTIVATION to leak that the SCOTUS was considering overturning Wade? I seriously can ONLY THINK OF ONE. Outrage on the left. And that's what happened.
I don't think that was the first time the left thought it was a conservative Justice (or, e.g., one of their clerks or family members) who leaked the draft opinion. I talked to several liberals who thought that was likely and, IIRC, think some pundits speculated to that effect. I recall a number of people pointing at Justice Thomas' wife.

When asked I told the people I know that it could easily have been either side that leaked it. If I had to put a number on it, I'd have said 60/40 - 60% chance that someone from the conservative side leaked it and 40% chance that someone from the liberal side leaked it. But anyone without inside knowledge who claims to know with any certainty is either being disingenuous or kidding themselves.

Some of the things Justice Alito said in that interview are troubling. Before I read that I thought him as likely as any other to have been the leaker (maybe slightly more so, given his history and specifics of the situation). But some of the things he said seem more likely to be said (by a Justice) if the intent is distraction rather than cander. So that interview makes me more suspicious of him, not less. It was just sketchy. And he doesn't exactly have a track record of being as intellectually honest as, say, Justice Thomas. If Justice Thomas said such things, I'd tend to believe him.

As for the possible motivations, there are several. Some face outward (from the Court's perspective) and some face inward.

For one, the Justices no doubt realized that this decision - for a number of reasons - wasn't likely to help Republicans in the upcoming elections. Those against abortion tend to vote regardless, and they've effectively been on the losing side of the issue for a while so they've been somewhat more motivated to vote because they're fighting for something they believe in. Those on the other side had less need to fight because they've effectively been on the winning side of the issue for decades. There was less visceral urge; things were already more or less how they wanted things to be. Additionally, they tend not to vote as reliably as the other side. This decision was going to be a big motivator in races that were all about turnout - who could fire their people up more.

Democratic strategist no doubt saw the decision as a net plus when it came to upcoming elections. With that being the case, might it help just a little to get it out there sooner rather than later, to take some of the sting out of the issue? It probably wasn't going to help much in that regard. But to the extent leaking it early for electoral strategy reasons made sense, it made more sense for conservatives. If it was going to come out eventually anyway, liberals were at least as well off letting it be closer to the election. (Most conservatives I've spoken to agree on this aspect. And if anyone questions that the decision was an electoral motivator for liberals more so than conservatives, take a look at the incredible turnout in Kansas for the abortion amendment vote.)

Then there are inward facing motivations, i.e. either to lock in a wishy-washy vote to overturn Roe or to intimidate such a vote into changing. I think either motivation is plausible, though perhaps not likely to be effective. Liberals certainly could have been taking a shot to get Justice Kavanaugh to soften his stance (i.e. not go so far as to vote to repeal Roe). But conservatives also could have been trying to hold together a fragile majority. This was an early draft opinion that was leaked, so it's quite possible the majority was still a little uncertain. Trying to 'hold the majority' is something opinion writers sometimes have to consider - how far can I go with certain lines of reasoning without losing a critical vote? After all, in order for a majority opinion to remain a majority opinion a majority of the Justices have to sign the final draft of it.

Justice Kavanaugh wrote an unjoined concurring opinion suggesting he was a little queasy about the possible effects of this decision - effectively trying to walk it back just a bit. And he's the one we'd have expected to be a little wishy washy. Chief Justice Roberts was always unlikely to go along with overturning Roe in this case (though he'd be willing to in others), because he is a predictable judicial minimalist. He tends to not want to do more with a decision than is absolutely necessary to resolve the case at hand. So, because he felt the law in question could be upheld without overturning Roe (i.e., that it was constitutional even under the guidelines put in place by Roe and Casey), he wasn't going to go along with the other conservatives and vote to overturn Roe. That being the case, losing Justice Kavanaugh would have meant a 4-2-3 split and Chief Justice Roberts' (or Justice Kavanaugh's) opinion upholding the law but not overturning Roe would have controlled (because the other 4 conservatives would have agreed with upholding the law). Many conservatives (both on the Court and in general) obviously wanted a decision that went further than that.

With those realities in mind, it's easy for me to see either side leaking the draft. One side would be trying to scare Justice Kavanaugh with public outrage. The other would be in effect saying... you can't change your vote because now everyone will know that's what happened and they'll think it's because you were intimidated. You'll face outrage from the other side.

Those things said, did you read the statement from the Court regarding the investigation? It goes into why they haven't been able to conclusively identify the leaker. In part, it's because the technology used by the Court doesn't allow for the forensic tracking that would be needed absent a confession or eyewitnesses. It's also possible that the leak was inadvertent (from the perspective of the Justices and staff) - e.g., someone took a copy home and someone else in their home found it and took it open themselves to leak it. Maybe they were outraged by it? I think it would be silly to think that the Justices (and clerks) don't sometimes share thoughts and details of decisions with, e.g., their spouses.

Lastly, it was considerably more than 38 persons who could have been the source of the leak. IIRC, according to the investigation, it was closer to a hundred who had access to a copy of the draft.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
With those realities in mind, it's easy for me to see either side leaking the draft.
Then we disagree. The only reason I can think of as a motive, is to generate outrage. And I think that, because - surprise - it's precisely what happened.

It is the single most used issue when it comes to opposition to SCOTUS appointments and national elections - that they'll overturn Roe v. Wade. I've been hearing it for at least forty years - do not support this appointment, do not approve this SCOTUS nominee, do not vote for this governor or Senator or President. It's so frequent, it's an expectation during confirmation hearings.

And - it works. As Paul Crewe says in "The Longest Yard" - "Worked once, should work again".
If you want people to act - piss them off, get them afraid.

Conservatives are so used to being let down by conservative SCOTUS members - releasing it to generate animus against a conservative judge? Been there, done that. Happens so often, it wouldn't even make FOX.
 
Top