Salvation Outside the Catholic Church

[onel0126]

While conversing with an older Protestant relative of mine the other day, she brought up that the Catholic Church used to teach that there was no salvation outside of it. I told her that this is a common misunderstood notion among older Protestants. The article below is long but does a fantastic job in explaining what the Catechism of the Catholic Church actually says about this. You may not agree but hopefully this clarifies this. http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church

 

[PsyOps]

I get pretty fed up with these discussions about this church or that is the only way to be saved. Nothing can be more extra-biblical than to claim YOUR church is the way to salvation; when nothing in the bible stipulates this. Then those claiming their church is THE WAY go through long-winded, man-created diatribes and writings to support their fallacious claims.

It was believed in the days up to the emergence of Jesus that salvation was only going to be for the Jews. They were the chosen, after all. Then Jesus came along and told us everyone will have the opportunity to be part of the chosen – the Jew and the Gentile. This shocked the Jewish communities.

Now we live in a time where one sect of the Christian faith is doing the same thing; and justifying it through their own, self-serving writings; then go on to complicate as much as possible; so that only so-called ‘scholars can make sense of it for the rest of us poor uneducated saps.

It’s just as simple as this: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. – John 3:16-18

PERIOD!

 

[b23hqb]

I get pretty fed up with these discussions about this church or that is the only way to be saved. Nothing can be more extra-biblical than to claim YOUR church is the way to salvation; when nothing in the bible stipulates this. Then those claiming their church is THE WAY go through long-winded, man-created diatribes and writings to support their fallacious claims.

It was believed in the days up to the emergence of Jesus that salvation was only going to be for the Jews. They were the chosen, after all. Then Jesus came along and told us everyone will have the opportunity to be part of the chosen – the Jew and the Gentile. This shocked the Jewish communities.

Now we live in a time where one sect of the Christian faith is doing the same thing; and justifying it through their own, self-serving writings; then go on to complicate as much as possible; so that only so-called ‘scholars can make sense of it for the rest of us poor uneducated saps.

It’s just as simple as this: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. – John 3:16-18

PERIOD!

Amen, and Amen to the simplicity of God's plan for salvation. Toss in the Roman Road for added reinforcement, and the Word is the only way. Churches have nothing to do with it - those are just meetings or set places where like minded believers gather together, as the Word strongly suggests and desires.

The Jews of the time, along with Gentiles, had their chance. Those still alive have the opportunity as well.

 

[onel0126]

Churches have nothing to do with it - those are just meetings or set places where like minded believers gather together, as the Word strongly suggests and desires.

Show me in scripture where it implicitly says this. Show me some great theologian pre 1500 that wrote about this. You are the subscriber to sola scriptura. The onus is on you to back your beliefs/claims up.

 

[onel0126]

I get pretty fed up with these discussions about this church or that is the only way to be saved. Nothing can be more extra-biblical than to claim YOUR church is the way to salvation; when nothing in the bible stipulates this. Then those claiming their church is THE WAY go through long-winded, man-created diatribes and writings to support their fallacious claims.

It was believed in the days up to the emergence of Jesus that salvation was only going to be for the Jews. They were the chosen, after all. Then Jesus came along and told us everyone will have the opportunity to be part of the chosen – the Jew and the Gentile. This shocked the Jewish communities.

Now we live in a time where one sect of the Christian faith is doing the same thing; and justifying it through their own, self-serving writings; then go on to complicate as much as possible; so that only so-called ‘scholars can make sense of it for the rest of us poor uneducated saps.

It’s just as simple as this: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. – John 3:16-18

PERIOD!

"How do I follow Him?"

In Palestine in 30 A.D. the answer to this question had a certain direct circumstantial simplicity to it. One could go up to the Master and simply say, "I want to be your disciple." The original disciples followed Jesus by actually, physically following him around, listening to him, doing what he asked them to do, spending time with him and watching him, making him the model of their lives, receiving his healing power, his grace, his forgiveness. Then, Jesus ascended into heaven; his humanity took its definitive place at the center of all creation from which he would rule as Lord of all the universe and Lord of all history.

So now he's in heaven. But I'm still on earth. How do I follow him now? If I were living in the time immediately after the Ascension, the question would still have been relatively uncomplicated from a sociological point of view. There were these 12 men who had spent a lot of time with him, who knew him intimately — I would go stay with them, watch them, do what they told me to do. In fact, Jesus pointed these men out explicitly: he said to them, "He who hears you, hears me." They were the men that Jesus has directly "sent" to continue his work. If I spoke Greek I would refer to this "sending" by calling them "apostles." The apostles are the emissaries of Jesus; they are the direct "link" with the humanity of Jesus.

But now two thousand years separate us from Jesus and his apostles. How can I be in vital contact with Jesus now? If Jesus says, "no one comes to the Father except through me. . . no one attains to the goal and the fulfillment of his existence except through me"; if he means that I am obligated to believe in him and follow him now, in the 21st century, then he must have established some means whereby I can be in contact with him. What does it mean to belong to Christ today? When I look around, I see a lot of people who call themselves Christians, "followers of Christ" (which is what I want to be). And yet everybody says different things. There are all these different, competing claims about "the true way to follow Christ." How do I judge between them? How can I determine which way is the true way? Remember, if Jesus really made the claim to be the salvation of men in all times, then there must be some concrete possibility to follow him now. There is.....the Church; a physical Church!

 

[PsyOps]

First of all, I posted it to clarify the Church's teaching, not to stick my finger in anyone's eye.

Second, Psy, as a self-described non-church attendee I would fully expect you to be upset with this teaching. It really is easier to not attend church and go with the I'm saved once and for all and Jesus loves me yada yada yada.

First you claim not to be sticking your finger in my eye, then you go on to stick your finger in my eye

Secondly, I’m not upset; I’m just fed up with the “my church owns the market on salvation”. I don’t go to church not because it’s easier not to; I don’t go to church because my experiences (which are many) have taught me to have very little trust in organized religion; institutionalizing Jesus. I find very few things more destructive to our faith.

We make the Gospel far more complicated than it need be; and the only purpose for making it complicated with rules and rituals is to keep people in the dark about God’s truth.

 

[PsyOps]

"How do I follow Him?"

In Palestine in 30 A.D. the answer to this question had a certain direct circumstantial simplicity to it. One could go up to the Master and simply say, "I want to be your disciple." The original disciples followed Jesus by actually, physically following him around, listening to him, doing what he asked them to do, spending time with him and watching him, making him the model of their lives, receiving his healing power, his grace, his forgiveness. Then, Jesus ascended into heaven; his humanity took its definitive place at the center of all creation from which he would rule as Lord of all the universe and Lord of all history.

So now he's in heaven. But I'm still on earth. How do I follow him now? If I were living in the time immediately after the Ascension, the question would still have been relatively uncomplicated from a sociological point of view. There were these 12 men who had spent a lot of time with him, who knew him intimately — I would go stay with them, watch them, do what they told me to do. In fact, Jesus pointed these men out explicitly: he said to them, "He who hears you, hears me." They were the men that Jesus has directly "sent" to continue his work. If I spoke Greek I would refer to this "sending" by calling them "apostles." The apostles are the emissaries of Jesus; they are the direct "link" with the humanity of Jesus.

But now two thousand years separate us from Jesus and his apostles. How can I be in vital contact with Jesus now? If Jesus says, "no one comes to the Father except through me. . . no one attains to the goal and the fulfillment of his existence except through me"; if he means that I am obligated to believe in him and follow him now, in the 21st century, then he must have established some means whereby I can be in contact with him. What does it mean to belong to Christ today? When I look around, I see a lot of people who call themselves Christians, "followers of Christ" (which is what I want to be). And yet everybody says different things. There are all these different, competing claims about "the true way to follow Christ." How do I judge between them? How can I determine which way is the true way? Remember, if Jesus really made the claim to be the salvation of men in all times, then there must be some concrete possibility to follow him now. There is.....the Church; a physical Church!

The Church is Jesus established through Peter. And that is NOT a physical Church; it is a spiritual Church. Jesus had no church when he was here. His Church was wherever he went. And he supported this when he told the Sanhedrin (cryptically) that the church was HIM (John 2:19), not that building (the Temple) they were standing in.

The way to Christ is not through a church – some building. If that were the case Jesus would have said “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him and the Catholic/Methodist/Baptist church shall not perish but have eternal life”. It is said over and over in the NT that THE WAY is through Jesus – PERIOD! Believe/follow/commit to Him – not some church.

 

[onel0126]

The Church is Jesus established through Peter.

Humor me B23, and tell me you agree with this...

 

[b23hqb]

Humor me B23, and tell me you agree with this...

OK, humor person. This is my take on what Psy said: Without Jesus, there would be no church, and no reason for any of this banter. Jesus IS the sole basis of the church, the rock/foundation/cornerstone on which the apostles grew the church. They did not build it - I don't see Peter, or any one else other than Jesus, proclaiming they could do this:


John 2:18-20 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

18 Then the Jews answered and said unto Him, “What sign showest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?”

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

20 Then said the Jews, “Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?”

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

Humorous enough for you?

 

[onel0126]

OK, humor person. This is my take on what Psy said: Without Jesus, there would be no church, and no reason for any of this banter. Jesus IS the sole basis of the church, the rock/foundation/cornerstone on which the apostles grew the church. They did not build it - I don't see Peter, or any one else other than Jesus, proclaiming they could do this: John 2:18-20 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) 18 Then the Jews answered and said unto Him, “What sign showest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?” 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 Then said the Jews, “Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days?” 21st Century King James Version (KJ21) Humorous enough for you?

So that's a no. Thanks--again Protestants disagreeing on salvation issues. I was after a yes or no answer with respect to Psy's comment on Peter.

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

Do you think Jesus would approve of Christianity? It never ceases to amaze me how un Christ-like most of his followers can be. Was Jesus so intolerant of others?

 

[onel0126]

Do you think Jesus would approve of Christianity? It never ceases to amaze me how un Christ-like most of his followers can be. Was Jesus so intolerant of others?

Stop wussifying Jesus.

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

Stop wussifying Jesus.

Right...what was I thinking?..Like any good christian, he most certainly would favor gun rights, the death penalty, deporting illegals, and would absolutely hate Obama!

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Right...what was I thinking?..Like any good christian, he most certainly would favor gun rights, the death penalty, deporting illegals, and would absolutely hate Obama!

And would also favor gay marriage ban, stem-cell research ban, a ban on contraceptives, ban on abortion...on and on...and absolutely love Sarah Palin

But I digress, Christians are only the second most intolerant group of humans on the face of the earth...so they have that going for them