Saudi's and 9/11 attack

[Clare Whitbeck]

Below is an excerpt from an article in the Los Angeles Times. To see the entire article go to
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...2aug02,1,4474000.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Clare

Saudi Government Provided Aid to 9/11 Hijackers, Sources Say
By Josh Meyer
The Los Angeles Times

Saturday 02 August 2003

WASHINGTON - The 27 classified pages of a congressional report about Sept. 11 depict a Saudi government that not only provided significant money and aid to the suicide hijackers but also allowed potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to flow to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups through suspect charities and other fronts, according to sources familiar with the document.

One U.S. official who has read the classified section said it describes "very direct, very specific links" between Saudi officials, two of the San Diego-based hijackers and other potential co-conspirators "that cannot be passed off as rogue, isolated or coincidental."

Said another official: "It's really damning. What it says is that not only Saudi entities or nationals are implicated in 9/11, but the [Saudi] government" as well.

Despite such a harsh assessment of the alleged role of the Riyadh government, those U.S.officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, say congressional investigators found no specific evidence proving that top Saudi officials — notably members of the royal family — conspired in any purposeful way to fund the Sept. 11 plot or other acts of terrorism.

 

[Kain99]

So what? Are you suggesting, that we blow the Saudi's sky high ensuring our economic doom?

 

[justhangn]

Originally posted by Kain99
So what? Are you suggesting, that we blow the Saudi's sky high ensuring peace in the region?

 

[Kain99]

Originally posted by justhangn

I'll say it agin.........Instigator!

 

[justhangn]

Originally posted by Kain99
I'll say it agin.........Instigator!

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Below is an excerpt from an article in the Los Angeles Times. To see the entire article go to
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...2aug02,1,4474000.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Clare

Saudi Government Provided Aid to 9/11 Hijackers, Sources Say
By Josh Meyer
The Los Angeles Times

Saturday 02 August 2003

WASHINGTON - The 27 classified pages of a congressional report about Sept. 11 depict a Saudi government that not only provided significant money and aid to the suicide hijackers but also allowed potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to flow to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups through suspect charities and other fronts, according to sources familiar with the document.

One U.S. official who has read the classified section said it describes "very direct, very specific links" between Saudi officials, two of the San Diego-based hijackers and other potential co-conspirators "that cannot be passed off as rogue, isolated or coincidental."

Said another official: "It's really damning. What it says is that not only Saudi entities or nationals are implicated in 9/11, but the [Saudi] government" as well.

Despite such a harsh assessment of the alleged role of the Riyadh government, those U.S.officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, say congressional investigators found no specific evidence proving that top Saudi officials — notably members of the royal family — conspired in any purposeful way to fund the Sept. 11 plot or other acts of terrorism.

What a crock? You have two "US Officials" divulging information that is supposed to be protected. How can they be trusted at all?

The media keeps trying to make this spin into a major story, but I doubt that it will. Anyone that doesn't already know that many Saudi nationals don't like us has had their head stuck in the mud for a while. But that doesn't mean that the Saudi government is doing anything to harm us or our relations.

What's your point Clare?

 

[Bruzilla]

Actually... there are more Saudi nationals that dislike the Saudi government than there are who dislike us.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

My point

Look folks, everyone is trying to spin this story so as to get the greatest advantage. I'm just trying to follow it.
Now you are really going to know I'm a liberal. I believe in knowing the truth to the greatest extent possible. It's always good to know who your friends are. They are the people who can be trusted to guard your back.
Were you able to get to the web site to read the article?
Clare

 

[Bruzilla]

Too bad Liberals are so selective in the truths they want to know to the greatest extent possible.

Who are our friends? I think that the biggest lesson that the US can take away from 9/11 is that aside from England we have no friends, especially when you're planning on asking our "friends" to risk their personal safety, national security, or economic prosperity. Let's look at our list of "friends" who have shived us between the shoulder blades lately...

Russia
Germany
France
Japan
Canada
Mexico
China

All of these "friends" have shown that they are of the fair-weather variety and little more, and that they'll turn on the US in a heartbeat if it's in their national interests. That's why the Brits are the only folks it seems we can count on.

 

[Ken King]

Re: My point

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
It's always good to know who your friends are. They are the people who can be trusted to guard your back.
Were you able to get to the web site to read the article?
Clare

Our friends will change depending on the issue and what it is we are up against. The Brits, for the most part, stand side by side with us, but it isn't always like that. It is situation driven and at times we might have some unlikely partners.

Nope I didn't care to log onto the LA Times site and read that article, I got the gist of it from what you posted. I have seen similar speculative rantings in a variety of printed media recently. What is similar between them all is that they rely upon the un-named source, the US Official, or will simply make stuff up.

I find it troubling that supposed government officials would talk to reporters about classified information. To get there agenda moving while risking our nation and allies. This is what needs investigation, in my mind, and if it is found out who they are they should be imprisoned for a lengthy period.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

rantings

You are all entitled to believe what you want to believe. By the way, so am I.
Clare

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

Classified information

The question is whether the Saudi information was removed from the report to preserve the national interest or was redacted for the political purposes of the politicians. Both Republicans and Democrats have lied to the public in the past, but since the time of Nixon, no one can deny that the government itself breaks the rules from time to time while believing itself to be within the law. Is this is one of those times? I don't know, but I do know that my years of blind faith in this or any government are long gone. I require proof. I don't see any either way on this topic yet.
Clare

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
You are all entitled to believe what you want to believe. By the way, so am I.

Of course you are. But don't be surprised when people think you're a nut.

Were there Saudi officials who helped Al Qaeda? Probably - wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean the whole Saudi goverment was in on it? Hardly.

The LA Times not the most credible source for news, IMO. The story you cited is a great example. The headline:

Saudi Government Provided Aid to 9/11 Hijackers, Sources Say

Then in the body:

congressional investigators found no specific evidence proving that top Saudi officials — notably members of the royal family — conspired in any purposeful way to fund the Sept. 11 plot or other acts of terrorism.

Hello? Saudi is a monarchy - the Royals ARE the government. So how can this rag say that the Saudi Government provided aid, then go on to say there's no evidence?

What am I missing? Besides one more little liberal fishwrapper that wants to bust on Bush?

 

[vraiblonde]

my years of blind faith in this or any government are long gone.

Clare, that's the smartest thing I've ever heard you say.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Of course you are. But don't be surprised when people think you're a nut.

Were there Saudi officials who helped Al Qaeda? Probably - wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean the whole Saudi goverment was in on it? Hardly.

The LA Times not the most credible source for news, IMO. The story you cited is a great example. The headline:
Then in the body:
Hello? Saudi is a monarchy - the Royals ARE the government. So how can this rag say that the Saudi Government provided aid, then go on to say there's no evidence?

What am I missing? Besides one more little liberal fishwrapper that wants to bust on Bush?

Your reply brings up an interesting point: Are we talking about Saudi officials or the royal family? Are the members of the royal family the only "officials" of the Saudi government? Which "officals" were thought to be involved? To what extent? What evidence is there to prove the case? We don't know because the pages were redacted. If anything more appears I'll keep you informed.
Clare
BTW: Could you define the word nut?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Could you define the word nut?

Nut slang
1. A crazy or eccentric person.
See also "crackpot" n. An eccentric person, especially one with bizarre ideas.

The LA Times story contradicts itself - on one hand there big evidence that the Saudi government was a major funder of the 9-11 attacks. On the other, there is no evidence that they were involved in a significant way. Which is it?

As far as the redacted pages, oh well. Classified information is classified for a reason. I'm sure we'll find out all about it (if we even care anymore) when they get it all sorted out.

Do you honestly think Bush would risk protecting the Saudis if they were responsible for 9-11? Honestly?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
You are all entitled to believe what you want to believe. By the way, so am I.

Well then believe unsubstantiated speculation if you want. In my opinion that makes you a nosey busybody more interested in gossip than fact.

The question is whether the Saudi information was removed from the report to preserve the national interest or was redacted for the political purposes of the politicians. Both Republicans and Democrats have lied to the public in the past, but since the time of Nixon, no one can deny that the government itself breaks the rules from time to time while believing itself to be within the law. Is this is one of those times? I don't know, but I do know that my years of blind faith in this or any government are long gone. I require proof. I don't see any either way on this topic yet.

No, some of the questions to be asked should be:
(a) If the material is still classified why are so many with access talking to those that have neither the clearance nor the need to know?
(b) Why was unsubstantiated information even mentioned in a report dealing with the failing of our intelligence community?
(c) Who or what might be harmed by releasing this information and will there be an impact to ongoing diplomatic relations?
(d) If, as the report states, the information has not been tested for reliability, why was it even included in the report?

What proof do you require? And against whom or what? You concentrate on the 28 pages that you haven’t had access to but I have heard little to nothing from you about the over 800 pages that you could see.

The proof of the report was that our government had been doing a very poor job of protecting us. The report says the agencies did shoddy work, at best, and didn’t communicate with each other. Each agency had many indicators and projects they were following but weren’t cooperating with each other or between field offices and headquarters of the same agencies. The INS has many unaccounted for persons moving freely within our country that could be a risk to our security (many from that region). With that said, should we concentrate on fixing these problems or should we simply worry about the information delivered in an unverifiable manner because it seems you and the liberal media have a bone to pick with the Saudi government?

 

[Bruzilla]

Nut: a foolish, eccentric, or crazy person

All of the key members of the Saudi government are members of the Royal family, and many functionaries and military officers are also members. It's amazing how many princes there are over in Kingdom.

The Saudi government, i.e., the House of Saud, is in a precarious position. On the one hand they rely almost entirely on the United States for their defense, both as a direct ally and as a provider of armaments and technical support for their indigenous forces. For decades we have relied on the Saudi government to help stabilize other Middle Eastern governments and believe me, were it not for the efforts of the House of Saud things would be a whole lot worse than they are out there. The problem is that most Americans have a tough time seeing past the oil connection. The Saudis control Mecca, and have the highest degree of credibility in the Middle East. Can you imagine what life would be like if they decided they didn't want to support any US positions? They were also the only Islamic government in the Middle East that didn't align themselves with the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of religious miscreants who loath Israel, loath the United States, and who think that they can do better than the Sauds. They see the Saudi/US relationship as a horrible thing and will do anything to break the relationships between our countries. So the Sauds have to walk a fine line by courting favor with the US and not going so far that they give their enemies all the ammunition they need to cause a popularist revolt like the one that ousted the Shah of Iran. If the Saudis show 100% support, or anywhere near it, for the US, the government will be overthrown and a government hostile to the US will come into place... and that's not good for the home team.

Why were so many of the 9/11 terrorists Saudis? Here's my theory from spending a lot of time over there. Saudi males live the life of Reilly over there. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want, as long as they obey the laws. Everything is paid for by the government... educations, housing, etc. Most Saudi males have been raised by maids who do everything for them. They have great jobs and use immigrants from India and the Phillipines doing all of the hard/dirty jobs. Basically, they are a bunch of spoiled brats who have nothing more to do than get bored with life and look for exciting ways to pass the time. In this regard they are no different from the spoiled brats of the rich in the US, who after having their parents provide everything they could possibly want, decide they need to rebel against the society that provided them with everything they've ever wanted.

So take a bunch of young males living in a society where males are the sole masters of everything, spoil them rotten and take away any incentive for hard work and laboring for the better of society, add a dash of strict religious upbringing, followed by a few teaspoons of misguided national zealotry, and you have the recipe for making terrorists that are just as dedicated as some poor waif who's parents were killed in front of their eyes when they were seven. For desert you can add the fact that the guy masterminding the plan and bankrolling it is a Saudi, and Saudis have little respect for non-Saudis and it's easy to see why they recruited most of the terrorists from the Kingdom. I doubt ABL would trust non-Saudis to get the job done.

There probably were members of the Saudi government who knowingly or unknowingly provided aid to the hijackers. While this is in no way an indictment of the Saudi government as a whole, there are a lot of people here in the US who will try to make it an indictment of both the Saudi government and the Bush administration for personal or political purposes.

I congratulate Bush for deleting the pages and telling the press to stuff it. It's better to take the pi$$ing and moaning of the Liberals, the press, and the people who distrust government than to give ammunition to the people on both sides of the fence who want to disrupt US/Saudi relations. Talk about cutting off your nose despite your face! Those idiots would have no problem either forcing a break in US/Saudi relations or leading to the toppling of the House of Saud without regard to the horrendous effects these would have on the US. Then, they would be the first to raise hell when things went bad for the US. Thank God that George Bush is wise enough to see the big picture and man enough to take the heat from those who don't. I think that's been Bush's greatest strength.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

Hi Vraiblonde,
Do you think my ideas are bizarre because they don't agree with yours, or because you believe they are the ideas of the majority of Americans, or for some other reason?
Clare

 

[Kain99]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
or because you believe they are the ideas of the majority of Americans, or for some other reason?
Clare

I just love it when people use this line to back up their positions...