Senior Property Tax Break

[Tonio]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17704-2004Nov2.html

I can understand why the seniors would be opposed to means-testing. When you have to disclose your income to some clerk in a government office, it feels like you've lost some of your privacy. But I do think the poorest seniors should benefit most from the property tax break. Maybe one good way to do that is to deduct, say, $75,000 from the assessed value (not the appraised value) of each senior's home before applying the property tax. What do you think?

 

[Oz]

This is a bad idea to begin with. Why should my neighbor have his taxes frozen, while my assessment jumps every 3 years.

I agree that Seniors don't put kids in schools, so they don't require those services.

But they also aren't major consumers with their disposable income. They already have furniture, appliances, cars, clothes, etc. I don't see their contribution to our economy in the form of disposable income as the commissioners have stated. I daresay that they contribute more to our economy through property tax assessments.

I will 100% guarantee you that I spend way more than my 2 remaining grandparents on either side of my family. Both have plenty of disposable income, as they are in good health, money in the bank, good investments, etc... Their houses are paid for, and furnished. I'm still building decks, finishing basements, upgrading appliances, buying sheds, and all of that good stuff.

Sure, some volunteer. Put a requirement on volunteer hours in exchange for a property tax break. With many groups, 10% of the people do 90% of the work. My 2 remaining grandparents do some volunteer work. I probably do just as much community service, along with working 80+ hours per week.

I would probably agree with Commissioner McKay 99.9% of the time. I think he's doing a great job. But I also think he is 110% wrong on this issue. I see it as a political game to attract some of Roy Dyson's constituents in the next election.

God Bless our senior citizens. And by all means get those who need help with their property taxes into a program that will assist them. But don't exempt them all from fair taxation just because of their age. It's not fair to those of us who are working hard each day to achieve retirement status.

 

[willie]

A requirement that the homeowner has to have that home as their primary residence for the previous 10 years would work.

 

[Ken King]

Why should any one group get a break not available to all? I could use a break on my property taxes too.

 

[willie]

Why should any one group get a break not available to all? I could use a break on my property taxes too.

Property assesments have put a hurt on many fixed income people that had intended to spend the rest of their days in their present home. Waterfront property assesments are out of sight. I don't think it's right that runaway home values should have to drive out fixed income family's.

 

[Ken King]

Property assesments have put a hurt on many fixed income people that had intended to spend the rest of their days in their present home. Waterfront property assesments are out of sight. I don't think it's right that runaway home values should have to drive out fixed income family's.

Really, how so? The assessments haven't even come close to staying with "market value" increases thus those owning a completely paid off (or almost paid off) piece of property can acquire funds from this lucrative asset and invest it thereby making them no longer fixed income. I don’t hold anywhere near the equity that many of the older homeowners have and they could use that wealth to their advantage. They shouldn’t be given a break because they choose not to do so. Besides, don’t they still need to contribute their share to the services that those taxes support?

 

[willie]

Really, how so? The assessments haven't even come close to staying with "market value" increases thus those owning a completely paid off (or almost paid off) piece of property can acquire funds from this lucrative asset and invest it thereby making them no longer fixed income. I don’t hold anywhere near the equity that many of the older homeowners have and they could use that wealth to their advantage. They shouldn’t be given a break because they choose not to do so. Besides, don’t they still need to contribute their share to the services that those taxes support?

Of course the assesment is lower than "market". The sales of your neighbors house drives your assesment up on the next cycle. My take on this tax break for the elderly is that when they bought the home no one foresaw how much it would cost to own a home in 2004. Medical costs alone are doing this age group in without adding on a large tax burden. The idea of refinancing to capitalize on the equity is a bad idea. It isn't even a good idea for a young person unless it is to finance a sure fire career change.

These high home values are a great thing for the retiree that wants to pack it up and move off to a reasonably priced area but it's a big burden to the folks that want to stay put. This is why I feel a 10 year residence requirement would assist only the serious home owners.

 

[Tonio]

Property assesments have put a hurt on many fixed income people that had intended to spend the rest of their days in their present home. Waterfront property assesments are out of sight. I don't think it's right that runaway home values should have to drive out fixed income family's.

That's how the commissioners are selling the idea. I agree that giving a tax break to seniors sets a bad precedent in policy terms. But I think the measure will go through, because no politician wants to be accused of letting impoverished grandmothers starve to death.

 

[Ken King]

It is discrimination plain and simple to reduce a tax rate for one class of people while maintaining it at the previous level for others. And why are these impoverished people? They have a valuable asset, such as real property, that they are doing nothing with and now the county wants to give them a break. Give me a break, I don't send kids to the schools any longer, haven't needed the fire department in over 9 years now, why do I have to pay full rate if they don't?

 

[willie]

It is discrimination plain and simple to reduce a tax rate for one class of people while maintaining it at the previous level for others. And why are these impoverished people? They have a valuable asset, such as real property, that they are doing nothing with and now the county wants to give them a break. Give me a break, I don't send kids to the schools any longer, haven't needed the fire department in over 9 years now, why do I have to pay full rate if they don't?

You're a meanie....next thing you'll be after is the senior coffee discount at McDonalds.

 

[Ken King]

You're a meanie....next thing you'll be after is the senior coffee discount at McDonalds.

How do you figure I am a "meamie"? I certainly am not a blind sheep that thinks all these old folk can't take care of themselves. And I could care less what a private business does for seniors but when it comes to the government doing something they must be equal in how they treat similarly situated citizens. As many own property and pay taxes at a given rate so should all that own property regardless of race, sex, age, or any of the other protected categories.

Maybe if it was being contemplated by your county you would have a differing opinion.

 

[willie]

How do you figure I am a "meamie"? I certainly am not a blind sheep that thinks all these old folk can't take care of themselves. And I could care less what a private business does for seniors but when it comes to the government doing something they must be equal in how they treat similarly situated citizens. As many own property and pay taxes at a given rate so should all that own property regardless of race, sex, age, or any of the other protected categories.

Maybe if it was being contemplated by your county you would have a differing opinion.

Lighten up...I certainly didn't mean to light the fuse on your Tampax.

 

[Ken King]

Look here you little twit if I wanted any lip off of you I would scrape it off my zipper.

 

[willie]

The zipper on your skirt?

Bart can't bend over this morning.

 

[Ken King]

The zipper on your skirt?

Bart can't bend over this morning.

If that is what you think amoeba brain. Figured you would still be into cartoons and I bet you voted for Kerry too.

 

[Tonio]

It is discrimination plain and simple to reduce a tax rate for one class of people while maintaining it at the previous level for others. And why are these impoverished people? They have a valuable asset, such as real property, that they are doing nothing with and now the county wants to give them a break. Give me a break, I don't send kids to the schools any longer, haven't needed the fire department in over 9 years now, why do I have to pay full rate if they don't?

Good points, Ken.

As I understand it, the seniors are angry for a couple of reasons: their mortgages are paid off so they have no escrow for spreading the tax bill over a year, they didn't intend on buying their homes to make a profit, and they feel like they have to sell their homes just to avoid poverty. I don't think that justifies giving them a special break on taxes, of course.

You're right that they have a valuable asset. Is there any way they can use the value of their homes to stay afloat, without selling or going into debt? I know at one time, the county proposed deferring property tax increases on seniors' homes until they die or sell their homes. Essentially, the estate or the new owners would have been hit with the unpaid balance of the taxes.

 

[Ken King]

Good points, Ken.

As I understand it, the seniors are angry for a couple of reasons: their mortgages are paid off so they have no escrow for spreading the tax bill over a year, they didn't intend on buying their homes to make a profit, and they feel like they have to sell their homes just to avoid poverty. I don't think that justifies giving them a special break on taxes, of course.

You're right that they have a valuable asset. Is there any way they can use the value of their homes to stay afloat, without selling or going into debt? I know at one time, the county proposed deferring property tax increases on seniors' homes until they die or sell their homes. Essentially, the estate or the new owners would have been hit with the unpaid balance of the taxes.

I think there are plans where they can take the equity out of the home and never repay it. Once they pass on then the property goes to the mortgager. Point being is that there are options available without the government acting in a discriminatory manner.

If the government wanted to act upon a travesty they could eliminate the death tax where many of these older folk get into a bind upon their spouses demise.

 

[Tonio]

Point being is that there are options available without the government acting in a discriminatory manner.

You're preaching to the choir, Ken.

If the government wanted to act upon a travesty they could eliminate the death tax where many of these older folk get into a bind upon their spouses demise.

Could you explain that a little? How can couples avoid that bind? I know many couples who have joint ownership on everything, so the surviving spouse is supposed to automatically keep it. Does that work?

 

[willie]

HUD has a program called the Reverse Mortgage. If you are at least 62 YOA a percentage of the value of the home can be "borrowed" and not have to be repaid until the house is sold or passed on to the heirs. This program is what let an elderly couple I know remain in their home on Cuckhold Creek. They bought it in the late 40's or early 50's and it is now worth a pile of money.

 

[ylexot]

HUD has a program called the Reverse Mortgage. If you are at least 62 YOA a percentage of the value of the home can be "borrowed" and not have to be repaid until the house is sold or passed on to the heirs. This program is what let an elderly couple I know remain in their home on Cuckhold Creek. They bought it in the late 40's or early 50's and it is now worth a pile of money.

Great! So why do they need a tax break?