SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE (Constitution/Thomas Jefferson)

[UrbanPancake]

The belief that Bush is divine is the same argument that Osama uses and many of the terrorists use to justify their actions. God doesn't work miracles for Bush, Cheney or Kerry, with the exception of the miracle of life they endure and enjoy. Religious fanatacism has led this country into war. 911 is a testament to just how far a human can go to try to justify their extreme positions, thou shalt not kill goes right out the window when it comes to proving a point. (think of the crusades, we did it then). If we use religious rite as a reason to justify killing, we have sunk to the level of every zealot that has existed. Wake up and realize that.

Bush has used the same lame excuses that Osama's been use'n.

 

[Ken King]

So are you saying that a person cannot have a religious belief or thought while holding an office within our government? If so you are indeed an idiot. That is the freedom guaranteed and protected by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The wall referred to is that the Congress cannot establish a religion or prohibit the exercise of one. It doesn’t mean that the President cannot believe and worship in his own way, he has the right, just as you and I do. It doesn’t mean that a judge, Senator, or Representative cannot hold these beliefs or must hold a religious belief. It means that there will be no laws made by Congress contrary to these rights.

 

[UrbanPancake]

So are you saying that a person cannot have a religious belief or thought while holding an office within our government? If so you are indeed an idiot. That is the freedom guaranteed and protected by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The wall referred to is that the Congress cannot establish a religion or prohibit the exercise of one. It doesn’t mean that the President cannot believe and worship in his own way, he has the right, just as you and I do. It doesn’t mean that a judge, Senator, or Representative cannot hold these beliefs or must hold a religious belief. It means that there will be no laws made by Congress contrary to these rights.

Exactly my point. I agree with you. Bush shouldn't let religion prevent him from making sound science backed policy.

 

[Kain99]

Exactly my point. I agree with you. Bush shouldn't let religion prevent him from making sound science backed policy.

I get it! You hate Bush because you hate God.... Now I understand.

 

[Ken King]

Exactly my point. I agree with you. Bush shouldn't let religion prevent him from making sound science backed policy.

Okay, what science backed policy are you now talking about as you flit and flutter all over the freaking place? And, before you get too far out into the undergrowth, if Bush wanted to rely solely upon his religious beliefs that would be totally acceptable to, he has that right.

 

[HORUS]

This country is following the tactics of Nazi Germany, making the people fear that they won't be safe enough with another candidate in office. If you vote because of fear then you are voting for the wrong reason. Look what happened to Germany and if Bush is elected again, I'm not saying it will be another Nazi regime but considering how he's taking away our freedoms, I wouldn't be surprised if it became a modern day version of Nazi Germany.

We're living lies people, why can't you see that? Do your country right and vote for Kerry. Truthfully, I don't believe Kerry can follow through with everything he promises. It's almost impossible. But can we really put up with a man who has had his chance at running this country AND FAILED?

Did you know we have the largest deficit since World War II? Because of an unnecessary war in Iraq? World War II was necessary because the security of the entire world was at stake. IRAQ WAS NOT A THREAT! The only country that they threatened was Israel...doesn't that seem a little fishy considering Israel is sided with the U.S.? Didn't you ever think they wanted to kill two birds with one stone by getting rid of one threat to Israel and overtaking the oil so Haliburton can continue to thrive for Cheney? This administration is disgustingly dishonest to the people and some of you are still incredibly gullible.

I remember watching one of Bush's rallies where he was told by one of his supporters that he's never felt that God was in the White House until now. Well if you take a close look at Bush's sly smirk, laughing inside at the stupidity of the American people, you almost wonder if Bush is the representation of the devil. At least that's what everyone else thinks, outside of America and around the world.

Dude.... Your an idiot. :tool:


And thats all I'm going to say about it.

 

[Aimhigh2000]

Oy Vey

I am too sick with the flu to deal with all that today.

 

[ylexot]

Will you all just let UrbanAzzWipe have the last freakin' word already?

Yeah, you're probably right. We shouldn't feed the trolls. I'm sorry.

 

[FredFlash]

The Bill Of Rights was quickly amended to the Constitution in order to protect the rights of citizens because the original Constitution primarily just defined the powers of government. The third Article of the Bill of Rights (which became the first amendment) states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

There is often debate about what exactly what the First Amendment means, however, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Thomas Jefferson made clear that the purpose of the First Amendment was to establish a "wall of separation" between Church and State in order to protect individuals' right of conscience.

The First Amendment wasn't written to be understood according to some letter that the legislators didn't know was going to be written some 12 years after they recommended the Amendment to the states for ratification. In 1789, there were well established common law rules of interpretation for legislative enactments. Sir William Blackstone's Five Rules of Interpretation were probably the generally accepted rules of interpretation, when the First Amendment was written.

 

[forestal]

You're absolutely right, but keep this up and you'll be redder than me!

The belief that Bush is divine is the same argument that Osama uses and many of the terrorists use to justify their actions. God doesn't work miracles for Bush, Cheney or Kerry, with the exception of the miracle of life they endure and enjoy. Religious fanatacism has led this country into war. 911 is a testament to just how far a human can go to try to justify their extreme positions, thou shalt not kill goes right out the window when it comes to proving a point. (think of the crusades, we did it then). If we use religious rite as a reason to justify killing, we have sunk to the level of every zealot that has existed. Wake up and realize that.

Bush has used the same lame excuses that Osama's been use'n.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You're absolutely right, but keep this up and you'll be redder than me!

Hey Forest, that post was from 11-02-2004. Your redness is safe.

 

[FredFlash]

There is often debate about what exactly what the First Amendment means, however, in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists, Thomas Jefferson made clear that the purpose of the First Amendment was to establish a "wall of separation" between Church and State in order to protect individuals' right of conscience:

THE fairest and most rational method to interpret the will of the national legislature that framed, and the state legislatures that adopted the First Amendment, is by exploring the legislator's intentions at the time when the law was made, by signs the most natural and probable. And these signs are either the words, the context, the subject matter, the effects and consequence, or the spirit and reason of the First Amendment.

Thomas Jefferson's famous letter, written in 1802, over a decade after the First Amendment was adopted, does not qualify as a "natural and probable sign of the law maker's intent at the time the law was made." The most natural and probable sign of the legislator's intent at the time the law was made is the words of the First Amendment.

Words in a law, according to Sir William Blackstone, the foremost legal authority of the founding era, are generally to be understood in their usual and most known signification; not so much regarding the propriety of grammar, as their general and popular use at the time the law was made. Terms of art, or technical terms, must be taken according to the acceptation of the learned in each art, trade, and science.

Now, all you have to do is determine the usual and most know signification of the words "establishment" and "religion", at the time the First Amendment was adopted. Then you will have the meaning of the First Amendment.

Let us know when you have the meaning.