Serious Space Force discussion

This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
So, I am hoping we can debate the potential merits and flaws of such a thing.

Potential flaws
One thing I've heard a lot against the idea is "don't we already do this? The [insert agency here] already does a lot of this, and so does [insert second agency here]!" I'm not POTUS or VP, but I'm thinking they at least have a passing knowledge of that fact, and the idea is to put them all under one hat. In other words, if some parts of the Navy and Air Force already do this, they would simply put those people in the new Dept of Space, along with NASA, etc. Yes, that would imply a new level of bureaucracy at the top, but it would also put a stronger focus on the current needs.

Another potential flaw is the question as to the priority this should have. Maybe raising the focus on a wolf closer to the door is prudent? Should we create a Cyber Force instead? I think we are at a more immediate risk of larger threats to the country's infrastructure through cyber attack than attacks on our satellites in space, and therefore it would be more worthwhile to raise that focus to a unified command.


Potential gains
So, why the focus here now? I know China has taken out one of its own satellites in a demonstration for the world to see that they can take out any satellite they want whenever they want, which would be a crucial problem for the technologically-advanced and reliant US military. That in and of itself makes this a wolf near our door. But, I would suggest another potential. This may sound like it belongs in the "Conspiracy" threads instead of "Politics", but we know there is an "asteroid" coming at us from outside our solar system, and it is slowing down instead of maintaining speed or speeding up as it gets closer to our solar system's gravitational pulls. If the History Channel has taught us anything, it is that aliens are indeed real, and have been here before. Is it possible our government knows more than our public, and they are preparing for someone coming? The moon is apparently hollow, and it has been noted that it would be a great base for The Watchers, so maybe they told us something? Or, maybe we can just predict what it happening all on our own from what we see?

Just some thoughts thrown out there. Let's see what you stick to the wall.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
there is no way the Chinese are not going to weaponize space ....
an orbital platform that can neutralize America's ICBM threat
[well land based anyway, SLBM are still short ranged enough]
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
spacecorpsmeme1200.jpg
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
100 years from now all the naysayers will be laughed at, just like we laugh at flat earthers and our Luddite ancestors. There was a time when the Air Force was scoffed at. We cannot explore/utilize space enough, in my opinion, and anyone who says different should turn off their internet right now and throw out their cellphone. No more GPS for you, either. So many things we use every single day have come from the space program. Why we don't fund the #### out of it is beyond me.

Space is the future and we need to protect our interests, so it makes perfect sense to create a military branch that does so. If some foreign entity knocks out our satellites, we will be in a world of hurt. It surprises me that anyone would object to this. The people who say, "Oh, but we have treaties that protect us in space," are bigger idiots than should be allowed to live unassisted.

Not to mention this is nothing new and earth shattering. United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, created in - ready? - 1958. Donald Rumsfeld was talking about a space force back in 2000. I think it's exciting that Trump is finally going to move forward with it.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
vraiblonde said:
100 years from now all the naysayers will be laughed at, just like we laugh at flat earthers and our Luddite ancestors. There was a time when the Air Force was scoffed at. We cannot explore/utilize space enough, in my opinion, and anyone who says different should turn off their internet right now and throw out their cellphone. No more GPS for you, either. So many things we use every single day have come from the space program. Why we don't fund the #### out of it is beyond me.

Space is the future and we need to protect our interests, so it makes perfect sense to create a military branch that does so. If some foreign entity knocks out our satellites, we will be in a world of hurt. It surprises me that anyone would object to this. The people who say, "Oh, but we have treaties that protect us in space," are bigger idiots than should be allowed to live unassisted.

Not to mention this is nothing new and earth shattering. United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, created in - ready? - 1958. Donald Rumsfeld was talking about a space force back in 2000. I think it's exciting that Trump is finally going to move forward with it.
Click to expand...

Overall, I agree.

Here are some caveats I have:
  1. The overall Defense budget does not change. The people, the pay, the equipment, etc., all fall under the current blanket of payments. This includes the Sec of Space, or whatever that person's title will be.
  2. Current Departments' groups that do some of the stuff now will move under the unified command - transfer, not a new redundant operation.
  3. The bulk of the monies for this come from the Army. We are not constitutionally authorized a standing army, and infantry, and that needs to go away anyway.
  4. No PT for the enlisted in this branch of service - in space, you're weightless, so it doesn't matter :lol:
 
T

transporter

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
They put out what they want the uniforms to be. At least the females:

View attachment 124209
Click to expand...

So you can't even be serious about the topic in the post you start and implore others to be serious???

This, like most Trump positions, is rather dumb, poorly thought out and pitched to a small minority of the American electorate.

Is there a threat to our satellites if we get into a Earth bound war with another space capable nation, yes. Is that a likelihood? No (at least not once we get past this incompetent President and this country re-starts relations with the rest of the world.)

Why is this a dumb idea?

First: we don't have the money. Next year we will have our first $1T budget deficit in a growing economy!! That is the height of fiscal stupidity.

Second: we have much more pressing issues right here on the ground. Our infrastructure system is falling apart. Roads, bridges, trains, airports....all in need of upgrade/replacement. Our electrical grid is subject to attack/hacking. We have 70 million baby boomers draining the Treasury to pay for their health care and provide them income. Our entitlements need to be reformed. Our kids are falling behind the rest of the world in educational attainment. We need to fight the battles and find solutions to the problems we actually have.

Third: If all you are worried about is satellite destruction...then we don't need to create an entire new Space force do we? We just need to build satellites with defensive capabilities. The idea that China can shoot down all our ICBMs is a rather stupid point...we couldn't pull that off...and you wouldn't need to do that from space anyway.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
This_person said:
Overall, I agree.

Here are some caveats I have:
  1. The overall Defense budget does not change. The people, the pay, the equipment, etc., all fall under the current blanket of payments. This includes the Sec of Space, or whatever that person's title will be.
  2. Current Departments' groups that do some of the stuff now will move under the unified command - transfer, not a new redundant operation.
  3. The bulk of the monies for this come from the Army. We are not constitutionally authorized a standing army, and infantry, and that needs to go away anyway.
  4. No PT for the enlisted in this branch of service - in space, you're weightless, so it doesn't matter :lol:
Click to expand...

1. How silly. We should fund the chit out of it. Take all the money we puke up on third world #### holes and welfare for our American third world #### holes and put it to good use.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you are saying that our Space Force should be random grunts rather than highly trained specialists, I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

3. Our Constitution does indeed authorize providing for the common defense. Ask Bann for a copy if you need one.

4. Astronauts are some of the fittest people on Earth because they have a physically and psychologically demanding job. I know you were snarking, but I'm not sure why you would pick that to be facetious.

YOU are the one who titled this "Serious Space Force Discussion". So did we want to discuss it seriously or not? Because if we don't, I won't waste any more time on this thread.
 
PsyOps

PsyOps

Pixelated
vraiblonde said:
100 years from now all the naysayers will be laughed at, just like we laugh at flat earthers and our Luddite ancestors. There was a time when the Air Force was scoffed at. We cannot explore/utilize space enough, in my opinion, and anyone who says different should turn off their internet right now and throw out their cellphone. No more GPS for you, either. So many things we use every single day have come from the space program. Why we don't fund the #### out of it is beyond me.

Space is the future and we need to protect our interests, so it makes perfect sense to create a military branch that does so. If some foreign entity knocks out our satellites, we will be in a world of hurt. It surprises me that anyone would object to this. The people who say, "Oh, but we have treaties that protect us in space," are bigger idiots than should be allowed to live unassisted.

Not to mention this is nothing new and earth shattering. United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, created in - ready? - 1958. Donald Rumsfeld was talking about a space force back in 2000. I think it's exciting that Trump is finally going to move forward with it.
Click to expand...

I'm not scoffing at the idea of a Space Force, I'm scoffing at the idea of just another agency/department to fund and explode the size of government. Have you noticed the debt/deficit? We can't afford the government we have now. All the talk about Social Security going solvent and Medicaid exploding. Where does it stop? What is going on out in space that our current military can't handle?

I don't think anyone has considered the massive cost of spinning up a new defense department. Basic training site. Technical schools. Build new bases. Expansion of the Pentagon. Recruiting. Rewriting the UCMJ, rules and regulations. Creating an officer and enlisted corp. The logistics alone would cost in the billions.

I thought the goal was to reduce the size and scope of government. It just never ends, while the people of this country get screwed with the bill.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
PsyOps said:
I'm not scoffing at the idea of a Space Force, I'm scoffing at the idea of just another agency/department to fund and explode the size of government. Have you noticed the debt/deficit? We can't afford the government we have now. All the talk about Social Security going solvent and Medicaid exploding. Where does it stop? What is going on out in space that our current military can't handle?

I don't think anyone has considered the massive cost of spinning up a new defense department. Basic training site. Technical schools. Build new bases. Expansion of the Pentagon. Recruiting. Rewriting the UCMJ, rules and regulations. Creating an officer and enlisted corp. The logistics alone would cost in the billions.

I thought the goal was to reduce the size and scope of government. It just never ends, while the people of this country get screwed with the bill.
Click to expand...

"But Queen Isabella! Think how much it will cost to sponsor this expedition!"

I truly do not understand this mentality. All the stupid crap they spend our money on, and this is where we want to cheap out??
 
Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
So, I am hoping we can debate the potential merits and flaws of such a thing.

Potential flaws
One thing I've heard a lot against the idea is "don't we already do this? The [insert agency here] already does a lot of this, and so does [insert second agency here]!" I'm not POTUS or VP, but I'm thinking they at least have a passing knowledge of that fact, and the idea is to put them all under one hat. In other words, if some parts of the Navy and Air Force already do this, they would simply put those people in the new Dept of Space, along with NASA, etc. Yes, that would imply a new level of bureaucracy at the top, but it would also put a stronger focus on the current needs.

Another potential flaw is the question as to the priority this should have. Maybe raising the focus on a wolf closer to the door is prudent? Should we create a Cyber Force instead? I think we are at a more immediate risk of larger threats to the country's infrastructure through cyber attack than attacks on our satellites in space, and therefore it would be more worthwhile to raise that focus to a unified command.


Potential gains
So, why the focus here now? I know China has taken out one of its own satellites in a demonstration for the world to see that they can take out any satellite they want whenever they want, which would be a crucial problem for the technologically-advanced and reliant US military. That in and of itself makes this a wolf near our door. But, I would suggest another potential. This may sound like it belongs in the "Conspiracy" threads instead of "Politics", but we know there is an "asteroid" coming at us from outside our solar system, and it is slowing down instead of maintaining speed or speeding up as it gets closer to our solar system's gravitational pulls. If the History Channel has taught us anything, it is that aliens are indeed real, and have been here before. Is it possible our government knows more than our public, and they are preparing for someone coming? The moon is apparently hollow, and it has been noted that it would be a great base for The Watchers, so maybe they told us something? Or, maybe we can just predict what it happening all on our own from what we see?

Just some thoughts thrown out there. Let's see what you stick to the wall.
Click to expand...

High ranking military personnel on Trump's team have come out in opposition for this idea. As you stated, it would add to the festering swamp that is military spending. The Dept. of Def. already wastes $125 billion on "administrative inefficiencies" per year, so the idea that we add more or that we can simple re-allocate money from other countries ignores the heart of the problem.

The US maintains 159 military satellites (China, just 35) and the current space operations spend $8.5 billion per year with plans to bump that to $44.3 billion over the next 5 years.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
vraiblonde said:
1. How silly. We should fund the chit out of it. Take all the money we puke up on third world #### holes and welfare for our American third world #### holes and put it to good use.
Click to expand...

My point is that we are already funding it, and we have a huge deficit. While defense is actually a function of government it is required to perform, we are not under-funding defense right now. See below for more.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you are saying that our Space Force should be random grunts rather than highly trained specialists, I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying that the functions of the Space Force, as described, are actually already being met by different units of different branches of the service now. I'm saying we simply put new uniforms on those fine professionals, and put them all under one hat so that they are actually understood, and have a more focused and unified mission statement that is more coherent up the chain.

3. Our Constitution does indeed authorize providing for the common defense. Ask Bann for a copy if you need one.
Click to expand...

The Constitution is a friend of both of ours, I know that to be true. But, Article One, Section Eight gives the federal government the authority to continuously and fully fund a Navy. It gives the federal government the authority to fund an army for up to two years only. The writings of the time are pretty clear that a standing army (i.e., the infantry) were not regarded as a continuous function of the federal government. Those are state jobs, given to the federal in a time of declared emergency/war/conflict.

Moving those functions out of the federal and putting them where they belong would be a great step to satisfy both the liberal argument of reducing defense, and the conservative argument of reducing government size/sticking to the Constitution.

4. Astronauts are some of the fittest people on Earth because they have a physically and psychologically demanding job. I know you were snarking, but I'm not sure why you would pick that to be facetious.

YOU are the one who titled this "Serious Space Force Discussion". So did we want to discuss it seriously or not? Because if we don't, I won't waste any more time on this thread.
Click to expand...

I actually do want a serious discussion, but I added that for no other reason than to be funny. I absolutely know that I could not have been an astronaut even back when I was in the Navy - much more physically-demanding than I could have handled. But, let's face it, even if manned space vessels were a near-term option for a Space Force, very few people would actually be in those vessels - the job would be mostly on Earth. Of course they would have to PT like every other service member.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
PsyOps said:
Have you noticed the debt/deficit? We can't afford the government we have now. All the talk about Social Security going solvent and Medicaid exploding. Where does it stop?
Click to expand...


yeah well pay attention to baseline budgeting - automatic increases in spending

see where all the money is going, the DOD is small potatoes


 
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