Service department aneurysm venting

glhs837

Power with Control
Wifes 2015 presents with a CEL/MIL and rough running, moreso under load. Whip out handy dandy ELM32 bluetooth reader, ger code 0300 and 0306. Which indicate a misfire, and one in cylinder 6 specifically. Ignoring a lot of the by play, here are two things that stand out as aneurysm causing.

1. The service advisors assurance, backed up by the computer, that spark plugs are NOT covered by the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. They are a wear item. Understood, but the service interval is 100,000 miles on those. She says that if I had 50K tires and they wore out at 48, would I expect free replacements? No, say I, but if they wore out in 30K, maybe so. There's a large difference between 100-60 and 50-48.

2. When discussing the odds of the coil being covered, she says, well, it depends on maint also. I ask what maint. She says like if I hadn't had scheduled service performed, then it wouldn't be covered. I ask what service might affect that. She says that if I didnt have the fuel injectors cleaned and had carbon buildup, it would not be covered. Wife looks at me and says "Were we supposed to have that done? " I tell her, no, since that is NOT in the factory service requirements. That the dealership has it's own list, unsaid is that those lists are profit centers that bank on customer ignorance.

Every single time I deal with these folks, it ends up being a dance. I could have had the plugs and coil here in two days and replaced in a couple of hours. Instead I'll get an aneurysm and take three days and still have to fix it myself like I did the electrical faults they blamed on a shifter module and it ended up being the battery.

Rant over.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
I would suggest that if you are not happy with the service you are getting at the dealer you contact your local zone representative for the manufacturer of the auto you own.
If it's not covered under warranty he / she will know and they will also look at your history with buying from that manufacture along with the autos service record.
If they feel you are a valuable customer they can put the needed repairs under full warranty, or sometimes you pay labor and they pay for parts. Good Luck.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
what make of vehicle is this ?
I would suggest that if you are not happy with the service you are getting at the dealer you contact your local zone representative for the manufacturer of the auto you own.
If it's not covered under warranty he / she will know and they will also look at your history with buying from that manufacture along with the autos service record.
If they feel you are a valuable customer they can put the needed repairs under full warranty, or sometimes you pay labor and they pay for parts. Good Luck.
2015 Jeep Trailhawk.

BD, Last three new vehicles were from CDJ. Or Daimler Chrysler, then Cerebus Group, and now FCA :) But I don't buy service from them, never had. Service requirements are so low that it's not worth my time to take it in. And really, the repairs cost less for me to do than to even pay the $100 deductible under the MaxCare warranty. If we had not had to put down one of our dogs yesterday, most likely would not even have taken it in. Parts cost for OEM stuff from Rock Auto, six plugs and one coil pack are about $60.

The main complaint here isn't who pays so much as the idea that if a part has a service life and only lasts %60 of that life, there should be either a pro-rate or a replacement. To flat say it's not covered seems off to me. The other complaint is that the service writer saying that it might not be covered if I didn't follow the dealership recommended service schedule is BS. That's outright lying. I know why it happens, but it's another reason I think the dealership model is a POS that needs to die.
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
2015 Jeep Trailhawk.

BD, Last three new vehicles were from CDJ. Or Daimler Chrysler, then Cerebus Group, and now FCA :) But I don't buy service from them, never had. Service requirements are so low that it's not worth my time to take it in. And really, the repairs cost less for me to do than to even pay the $100 deductible under the MaxCare warranty. If we had not had to put down one of our dogs yesterday, most likely would not even have taken it in. Parts cost for OEM stuff from Rock Auto, six plugs and one coil pack are about $60.

The main complaint here isn't who pays so much as the idea that if a part has a service life and only lasts %60 of that life, there should be either a pro-rate or a replacement. To flat say it's not covered seems off to me. The other complaint is that the service writer saying that it might not be covered if I didn't follow the dealership recommended service schedule is BS. That's outright lying. I know why it happens, but it's another reason I think the dealership model is a POS that needs to die.
Dealership service and parts depts., especially in this area, suck. With that said, the items are not covered in your vehicle warranty. However, check the emissions warranty and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Maintenance Costs Not Covered (by vehicle warranty)
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage caused by poor or improper maintenance.
Nor do they cover damage caused by the use of
contaminated fuels, or by the use of fuels, oils,
lubricants, cleaners or fluids other than those
recommended in your Owner’s Manual.
The warranties don’t cover the costs of your
vehicle’s normal or scheduled maintenance — the
parts and services that all vehicles routinely need.
Some of these parts and services, which your
warranties don’t cover, include:
• lubrication;
• engine tune-ups;
• replacing filters, coolant, spark plugs, bulbs, or
fuses (unless those costs result from a covered
repair);
• cleaning and polishing; and
• replacing worn wiper blades, worn brake pads
and linings, or clutch linings.
 
Last edited:

glhs837

Power with Control
Dealership service and parts depts., especially in this area, suck. With that said, the items are not covered in your vehicle warranty. However, check the emissions warranty and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Maintenance Costs Not Covered (by vehicle warranty)
Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing
damage caused by poor or improper maintenance.
Nor do they cover damage caused by the use of
contaminated fuels, or by the use of fuels, oils,
lubricants, cleaners or fluids other than those
recommended in your Owner’s Manual.
The warranties don’t cover the costs of your
vehicle’s normal or scheduled maintenance — the
parts and services that all vehicles routinely need.
Some of these parts and services, which your
warranties don’t cover, include:
• lubrication;
• engine tune-ups;
• replacing filters, coolant, spark plugs, bulbs, or
fuses (unless those costs result from a covered
repair);
• cleaning and polishing; and
• replacing worn wiper blades, worn brake pads
and linings, or clutch linings.
My point was that an item with a 100K service interval, should it fail at 60K, should be covered, or at least prorated. Factory service requirements for this vehicle with this engine are literally only air filters every 30K, and oil as called for by the monitoring system, NTE 10,000 miles. I change it when the system tells me, which averages between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. That's it, there is no tune up, no other servicing required.

So, just got my call. It was a bad coil pack, which will be replaced for the cost of my $100 deductible. They said the plug was worn and offered to replace them for me. Reduced labor cost since they have the upper manifold off the engine already. Cost to replace the plugs on top of the other cost? A mere $300 dollars. Yeah, I'll be replacing those myself.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
My point was that an item with a 100K service interval, should it fail at 60K, should be covered, or at least prorated. Factory service requirements for this vehicle with this engine are literally only air filters every 30K, and oil as called for by the monitoring system, NTE 10,000 miles. I change it when the system tells me, which averages between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. That's it, there is no tune up, no other servicing required.

So, just got my call. It was a bad coil pack, which will be replaced for the cost of my $100 deductible. They said the plug was worn and offered to replace them for me. Reduced labor cost since they have the upper manifold off the engine already. Cost to replace the plugs on top of the other cost? A mere $300 dollars. Yeah, I'll be replacing those myself.
Why replace them if they are not bad, lots can happen in 40,000 miles.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Why replace them if they are not bad, lots can happen in 40,000 miles.
Dealership reported that number 6 looked worn. And based on the experience with the Charger SRT, which also had 100K plugs that I changed at 75, these are most likely due. There's a difference between functional and optimal. The plugs I pulled out of the Charger were still producing spark, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that it was not as good a spark as it might have been. The electrodes were pretty worn. Think of it like tires. Yeah, they are usable down to the 2/32nds tread wear bars, but those last few thousands of miles those tires are far less than optimal. For an hour of my time and about $25 in parts, it's worth changing them now.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85

but disquieting situation since we were still traveling about 47 mph on tires with 4/32-inch of remaining tread depth when we reached the distance it had taken the new tires to bring the pickup to a complete stop!
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
Dealership reported that number 6 looked worn. And based on the experience with the Charger SRT, which also had 100K plugs that I changed at 75, these are most likely due. There's a difference between functional and optimal. The plugs I pulled out of the Charger were still producing spark, I'm sure, but I'm also sure that it was not as good a spark as it might have been. The electrodes were pretty worn. Think of it like tires. Yeah, they are usable down to the 2/32nds tread wear bars, but those last few thousands of miles those tires are far less than optimal. For an hour of my time and about $25 in parts, it's worth changing them now.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=85
Interesting, I'm just the opposite with my Lexus. I changed the first set for no other reason but having a 100,000 miles on them. But I still was getting 27+- mpg on the highway.
That set went to 120,000+ miles and were changed with one plug wire being oil soaked ( hemi style heads ) and miss firing. It's a inline 6 and all the crossover fuel / air has to come off to replace the wires and most of the plugs.
Do your cars spend alot of time idling? That will shorten the life span of irrodiums.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Interesting, I'm just the opposite with my Lexus. I changed the first set for no other reason but having a 100,000 miles on them. But I still was getting 27+- mpg on the highway.
That set went to 120,000+ miles and were changed with one plug wire being oil soaked ( hemi style heads ) and miss firing. It's a inline 6 and all the crossover fuel / air has to come off to replace the wires and most of the plugs.
Do your cars spend alot of time idling? That will shorten the life span of irrodiums.
Nope. It's St Marys, and wife commutes counterflow from south of the base. when I do change them I'll show you what they look like. Could be that they are really fine, and the claim of it being worn was a ploy to get an extra $300 out of me. Last time the SRT-8 went in, at around 70 ish K because of a cooling system fault (I think there was tampering involved by a BILs angry girlfriend over a car he sold to us but had promised to give to her) they told me they had checked out the diff lube and it was worn out and should be replaced. Which I thought was odd since I had changed it at 70K :)
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
My point was that an item with a 100K service interval, should it fail at 60K, should be covered, or at least prorated. Factory service requirements for this vehicle with this engine are literally only air filters every 30K, and oil as called for by the monitoring system, NTE 10,000 miles. I change it when the system tells me, which averages between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. That's it, there is no tune up, no other servicing required.

So, just got my call. It was a bad coil pack, which will be replaced for the cost of my $100 deductible. They said the plug was worn and offered to replace them for me. Reduced labor cost since they have the upper manifold off the engine already. Cost to replace the plugs on top of the other cost? A mere $300 dollars. Yeah, I'll be replacing those myself.
Yea, I got your point. My point was that under the emissions warranty (which is separate for vehicle/powertrain) those parts should be changed for free. Dealerships don't like using the emissions clause because then they don't get your money at all.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
Yea, I got your point. My point was that under the emissions warranty (which is separate for vehicle/powertrain) those parts should be changed for free. Dealerships don't like using the emissions clause because then they don't get your money at all.
They don't make much money on any warranty repairs. Generally labor is about half of customer flat rate billing..
 

glhs837

Power with Control
They don't make much money on any warranty repairs. Generally labor is about half of customer flat rate billing..
Which is where the incentive to find a reason to push it off of warranty onto the customer comes from. "Sorry, Ma'am, but since you didn't have our $99.99 dollar blinker fluid flush done every 5,000 miles, you engine warranty is void, since it's the same electrons that pass through the blinkers" They will really start with such silliness in the hopes that they can get the customer to pay those higher rates. And show no shame if you call them on it.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
Which is where the incentive to find a reason to push it off of warranty onto the customer comes from. "Sorry, Ma'am, but since you didn't have our $99.99 dollar blinker fluid flush done every 5,000 miles, you engine warranty is void, since it's the same electrons that pass through the blinkers" They will really start with such silliness in the hopes that they can get the customer to pay those higher rates. And show no shame if you call them on it.
I would believe that has to do with the integrity of the Dealership. Thats why I suggested that you speak with the area zone representative.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I would believe that has to do with the integrity of the Dealership. Thats why I suggested that you speak with the area zone representative.
Sorry, but I don't think that really does any good. "Well, Bob, had a guy call today, says your people lied to him about the effects of recommended service versus required service on his warranty". "Damn, Fred, that's a shame he feels that way, he musta misunderstood something, but I'll mention to the team". "Thanks, Bob, see you at the Auto Show" Because at the end of the day, unless it's legal action or really bad PR, the zone reps are not going to take a dealership to task over making money. If customers wont be bothered to educate themselves, well, it's on them, that's the attitude.

I know this has been going on as long as cars have been sold, and will continue until the death of the franchise delaship model. Doesn't mean I have to like it, hence the vent. :)
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I know this has been going on as long as cars have been sold, and will continue until the death of the franchise dealership model. Doesn't mean I have to like it, hence the vent. :)
:yay:

cheap therapy for the price of a few electrons
 
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