Sex, dementia and a husband on trial

[Chasey_Lane]

Interesting case.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...nd-on-trial-at-age-78/ar-AAaY5rb?ocid=DELLDHP

There is no question that Donna Lou Rayhons had severe Alzheimer’s.

In the days before being placed in a nursing home in Garner, Iowa, last year, Mrs. Rayhons, 78, could not recall her daughters’ names or how to eat a hamburger. One day, she tried to wash her hands in the toilet of a restaurant bathroom.

But another question has become the crux of an extraordinary criminal case unfolding this week in an Iowa courtroom: Was Mrs. Rayhons able to consent to sex with her husband?

Henry Rayhons, 78, has been charged with third-degree felony sexual abuse, accused of having sex with his wife in a nursing home on May 23, 2014, eight days after staff members there told him they believed she was mentally unable to agree to sex.

It is rare, possibly unprecedented, for such circumstances to prompt criminal charges. Mr. Rayhons, a nine-term Republican state legislator, decided not to seek another term after his arrest.

 

[itsbob]

Interesting case.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...nd-on-trial-at-age-78/ar-AAaY5rb?ocid=DELLDHP

There is no question that Donna Lou Rayhons had severe Alzheimer’s.

In the days before being placed in a nursing home in Garner, Iowa, last year, Mrs. Rayhons, 78, could not recall her daughters’ names or how to eat a hamburger. One day, she tried to wash her hands in the toilet of a restaurant bathroom.

But another question has become the crux of an extraordinary criminal case unfolding this week in an Iowa courtroom: Was Mrs. Rayhons able to consent to sex with her husband?

Henry Rayhons, 78, has been charged with third-degree felony sexual abuse, accused of having sex with his wife in a nursing home on May 23, 2014, eight days after staff members there told him they believed she was mentally unable to agree to sex.

It is rare, possibly unprecedented, for such circumstances to prompt criminal charges. Mr. Rayhons, a nine-term Republican state legislator, decided not to seek another term after his arrest.

Guilty of having sex with his wife?

Oh the humanity!!

It's sick.. perverted.. illegal? We don't know the dynamics of their relationship, but I would assume they were in love and had sex prior to her getting sick.. Sounds more like somebody was out to get him and end his political career.

"eight days after staff members there told him they believed she was mentally unable to agree to sex" who the hell do they think they are to get in between a husband and wife and declaring either one of them unable to agree to sex.. running interference in the marital bed (no matter where that marital bed may be) is beyond ludicrous.

I don't care how sick I am.. how "out of it" I am.. if my wife wants to have sex with me.. she's my wife, it's none of your business!

 

[vraiblonde]

Sounds like kids vs. step-dad. I wonder if Mommy has some inheritance money in play.

However, it's kind of skeevy to have sex with a 78 year old Alzheimers patient, even if she is your wife. However again, there is no sign that she was upset or didn't want to get jiggy. I'm sure the rape kit was more upsetting than the intimacy with her husband.

This is a disturbing story. I hope I die before I get so old I need a nursing home.

 

[libertytyranny]

fascinating. especially this:
" Experts say adult children whose parents are in second or third marriages may have more difficulty condoning sexual activity with the newer spouse, something that may have played a role in Iowa, where Mrs. Rayhons’s daughters and husband disagreed about her care."

Seems as if the woman had no issues with the contact, only the daughter. Working in hospitals and with MANY dementia patients, their caregivers often cease treating them as adults, I'm sure it is because of the stress of the care but I have more than once had to remind caregivers (most often daughters) that their loved one is still a grown adult and while they need care and shielding, still have rights and dignity. It could very well be that the woman's daughter was uncomfortable with the activity and tried to stop it. Unfortunately, they can't really let him go on this one. If they deem her able to consent, then it leaves it open for people to take advantage of those with dementia.

 

[Gilligan]

I hope I die before I get so old I need a nursing home.

A troubling array of potential replies just went flashing across my troubled mind.

Look!..I refrained..and am walking away now. Watch me just walk away....

 

[Hijinx]

Wow. You have to read this whole article before making a comment.
Even then it's tough the pro's and cons. are discussed in the article.

They got married in 2007, the article does not reveal what the daughter thought of the marriage.
It was basically the daughter that made the accusation.
They found no semen in the lady, only on the bed clothes, and lingerie
Did they really have sex?
Pretty strange story, looks like the old guy shouldn't have done what he did,(whatever that was) but does it amount to a felony?

 

[Hijinx]

Don't we all?

 

[PsyOps]

There is no allegation that Mrs. Rayhons resisted or showed signs of abuse. And it is widely agreed that the Rayhoneses had a loving, affectionate relationship, having married in 2007 after each had been widowed. They met while singing in a church choir.

Mr. Rayhons… visited his wife morning and evening, sometimes praying the rosary by her bed.

Ms. Dornbier testified that acknowledged that Mrs. Rayhons “was always pleased to see Henry”. And Dr. Boedeker acknowledged that “intimacy is beneficial for dementia patients.”

This sort of thing irks the daylights out of me. You have a man that lost both of his wives, in the twilight of his life, and he’s being raked through legal coals because of – what I view to be – some anal-retentive activists that seem bent on ruining a man’s life. Considering Mr. Rayhons was a long-standing republican legislator, perhaps there is some political vengeance going on here.

Given Mrs. Rayhons may not have been in a state of mind to consent, no one knew her better than Mr. Rayhons to know whether she would have consented.

 

[vraiblonde]

Unfortunately, they can't really let him go on this one. If they deem her able to consent, then it leaves it open for people to take advantage of those with dementia.

See, there's the problem. But I think a married couple, who by all accounts had a very loving relationship, should be considered in this case. It's not like he's some creepy orderly insisting that she consented.

 

[PsyOps]

I hope I die before I get so old I need a nursing home.

If I do, I hope I'm like my wife's Aunt Ruby. She made it fun. She would sneak whoopee cushions under old men's butts. When we went to visit her she somehow got hold of one of those fart machines and snuck it under my chair and giggled her head off pushing the button. She was a hoot. She died at almost 100 I think. Anywhere she was was an opportunity to have a blast.

 

[libertytyranny]

See, there's the problem. But I think a married couple, who by all accounts had a very loving relationship, should be considered in this case. It's not like he's some creepy orderly insisting that she consented.

And that's the way I feel about it as well. But then that also opens the door to so-called "marital rape" and believing that marriage constitutes consent to sexual activity. There is no real good way for this man to get out of it, unless someone uses some common sense, and we know that isn't allowed.

 

[itsbob]

fascinating. especially this:
" Experts say adult children whose parents are in second or third marriages may have more difficulty condoning sexual activity with the newer spouse, something that may have played a role in Iowa, where Mrs. Rayhons’s daughters and husband disagreed about her care."

Seems as if the woman had no issues with the contact, only the daughter. Working in hospitals and with MANY dementia patients, their caregivers often cease treating them as adults, I'm sure it is because of the stress of the care but I have more than once had to remind caregivers (most often daughters) that their loved one is still a grown adult and while they need care and shielding, still have rights and dignity. It could very well be that the woman's daughter was uncomfortable with the activity and tried to stop it. Unfortunately, they can't really let him go on this one. If they deem her able to consent, then it leaves it open for people to take advantage of those with dementia.

I would suggest being married and having sex (I would assume) multiple times, unless they have proof of her voicing her NOT wanting to have sex with her husband. or a living sex will that states.."If I become incapacitated I do NOT want to have sex with HIM!!" you pretty much have implied consent to have sex with your spouse.. They keep saying she was unable to agree to sex, well, she was also unable to say no.. so unless you can say with 100% certainty what her wants would be in this situation there is no way you can find him guilty.

 

[PsyOps]

And that's the way I feel about it as well. But then that also opens the door to so-called "marital rape" and believing that marriage constitutes consent to sexual activity. There is no real good way for this man to get out of it, unless someone uses some common sense, and we know that isn't allowed.

Except that they really can't prove she didn't consent. It sounds to me like she still at least recognized her husband since she was always happy to see him. Doesn't that lend credence to the belief she knew who he was and what he was doing with her? I do know, depending on where they are in their stages of Alzheimers, there can be moments of clarity. This can even go on for days or even weeks. According to the article, he's being charged over one incident. Perhaps he went in her room and she said "Honey, I don't know how much longer I'll be able to say this but... let's do it one last time".

 

[libertytyranny]

I would suggest being married and having sex (I would assume) multiple times, unless they have proof of her voicing her NOT wanting to have sex with her husband. or a living sex will that states.."If I become incapacitated I do NOT want to have sex with HIM!!" you pretty much have implied consent to have sex with your spouse.. They keep saying she was unable to agree to sex, well, she was also unable to say no.. so unless you can say with 100% certainty what her wants would be in this situation there is no way you can find him guilty.

Except that they really can't prove she didn't consent. It sounds to me like she still at least recognized her husband since she was always happy to see him. Doesn't that lend credence to the belief she knew who he was and what he was doing with her? I do know, depending on where they are in their stages of Alzheimers, there can be moments of clarity. This can even go on for days or even weeks. According to the article, he's being charged of one incident. Perhaps he went in her room and she said "Honey, I don't know how much longer I'll be able to say this but... let's do it one last time".

I'm assuming that they mean to say that she cannot consent no matter what she says or does due to her mental state, much like age of consent laws. They don't seem to be arguing that she said no, only that she's not legally allowed to say yes, no matter her desires.

 

[vraiblonde]

Like the story said, a lot of people are uncomfortable with geriatric rump shaking, so that's probably what this is - the ick factor. Sounds like the daughters need to get a life.

 

[Gilligan]

Don't we all?

I just want to die in my sleep, like my grandfather did. And not screaming in terror like all the passengers in his car.

 

[Larry Gude]

This is a disturbing story. I hope I die before I get so old I need a nursing home.

I was just down G'boro and visit Gma and Bpa's joint and I come roaring through the door during lunch, dining hall off to left and that generation does NOT like facial hair, at all.
100 pairs of disproving eyes...

Next day at breakfast, their introducing me to everyone, one says, 'this your granddaughter?', many of the rest just stared at the beard. I was like, "Look, you we're happy with Robert E. Lee's beard, get over it..." they're like "Huh?"

There is quite the to do over seating as it is supposed to be open seating to encourage mingling but most just want THEIR table and THEIR pals. One woman bitched another out for sitting in the section of the dining room that was not open, a table right next to the rest but, no water jug means NOT open. Anothers phone kept ringing because she couldn't hear it.
There is a lovers triangle going on. Supposed to be a self sufficient house but they started allowing the wheeled walker things and now the hall gets line up with them at meals. Quite the scandal.

Lotta will to live in that joint.

 

[itsbob]

I'm assuming that they mean to say that she cannot consent no matter what she says or does due to her mental state, much like age of consent laws. They don't seem to be arguing that she said no, only that she's not legally allowed to say yes, no matter her desires.

Again, being married, and more than likely having sex many times as a married couple.. there should be an implied consent, unless she communicated her wants to NOT have sex with him prior.

 

[PsyOps]

I'm assuming that they mean to say that she cannot consent no matter what she says or does due to her mental state, much like age of consent laws. They don't seem to be arguing that she said no, only that she's not legally allowed to say yes, no matter her desires.

I don't like such black-and-white application of the law. She was dying from a horrible disease; a disease that the husband goes through too. Now to have this piled on Mr. Rayhons... Based what I read, it does not appear Mr. Rayhons was doing anything more than loving his dying wife. Just like so many of the stupid 'no tolerance' rules in our schools... there seems to be no logic in applying the rules.

 

[lovinmaryland]

Like the story said, a lot of people are uncomfortable with geriatric rump shaking, so that's probably what this is - the ick factor. Sounds like the daughters need to get a life.

Agreed. I think it shows the amount of love he has for her. He could be off banging someone else.