Sheriff Scott Nothing We Can Do To Stop Gunman Killing People, Great Carnage

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Sheriff Scott Israel Last October: Nothing We Can Do To Stop Gunman Killing People, Great Carnage


In October 2017, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said in response to the Las Vegas shooting that there is nothing that can be done to stop gunman who are "killing people" and committing "great carnage."

Israel, who made the comments speaking to CBS News Miami, said, “If you have a lone wolf assassin that’s committed to commit great carnage and killing people, there’s really nothing you can do about it.”

WATCH:

Sheriff Scott Israel in October 2017 on mass shootings: “If you have a lone wolf assassin that’s committed to commit great carnage and killing people, there’s really nothing you can do about it.” pic.twitter.com/Qo8deWrfzW

— Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) February 23, 2018
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
No actually there is. It requires good training and tremendous courage on the part of the first arriving police officer. And I promise, you'll get the bagpipes and we all put on our class-A uniforms for your funeral, but being a cop is not just donuts and writing traffic tickets. You get that cushy pension for putting your life on the line.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
No actually there is. It requires good training and tremendous courage on the part of the first arriving police officer. And I promise, you'll get the bagpipes and we all put on our class-A uniforms for your funeral, but being a cop is not just donuts and writing traffic tickets. You get that cushy pension for putting your life on the line.
By the time a cop gets there the shooter has already killed a bunch of people. You come across as a thinking person, so certainly you realize this. Israel is correct - there isn't anything you can do about a lone wolf who plans on killing himself afterward.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
By the time a cop gets there the shooter has already killed a bunch of people. You come across as a thinking person, so certainly you realize this. Israel is correct - there isn't anything you can do about a lone wolf who plans on killing himself afterward.
Except that in this case an officer was on scene early in the incident but remained outside while the killing continued. As other incidents (like the Ft Hood shooting) have demonstrated, an early response by the the police can end the killing and reduce the number of victims. Cruz wasn't planning on killing himself. He was planning on slipping out of the school along with the victims.

The Vegas shooter was pretty sophisticated and there was indeed little anyone, including the police, would have been able to stop him. The only way how he could have further evaded detection would have been by just cutting a hole in one of the windows (rather than breaking it out) and by using suppressed weapons.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
And, don’t forget all the red flags that went up on Cruz. This should have been an easy stop before it happened. Like when an airplane crashes. Oh, we need to fix that; never mind that it was after the fact.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
By the time a cop gets there the shooter has already killed a bunch of people. You come across as a thinking person, so certainly you realize this. Israel is correct - there isn't anything you can do about a lone wolf who plans on killing himself afterward.
But there were flags. I, totally, support law enforcement, but this horrible incident is a big black eye for them.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
And, don’t forget all the red flags that went up on Cruz. This should have been an easy stop before it happened. Like when an airplane crashes. Oh, we need to fix that; never mind that it was after the fact.
Should have could have. The first thing is that he wasn't put into 'the system' when it became clear that he was a dangerous nut. The newer kinder and gentler Broward school board didn't want to 'label' the little snowflake so everything was done to shuffle him around the schools until he could be graduated with a minimum effort worthless high-school degree. Unfortunately, he didn't even get there because he finally forced their hand by fighting in the school. Now I don't know whether Florida juvenile records go into NICS, so even if they had gotten him into the system, he may still have been able to purchase a firearm (as we found out with the nutter who shot up Virginia Tech, the psych records that go into the system are quite limited).
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
Should have could have. The first thing is that he wasn't put into 'the system' when it became clear that he was a dangerous nut. The newer kinder and gentler Broward school board didn't want to 'label' the little snowflake so everything was done to shuffle him around the schools until he could be graduated with a minimum effort worthless high-school degree. Unfortunately, he didn't even get there because he finally forced their hand by fighting in the school. Now I don't know whether Florida juvenile records go into NICS, so even if they had gotten him into the system, he may still have been able to purchase a firearm (as we found out with the nutter who shot up Virginia Tech, the psych records that go into the system are quite limited).
I get what you are saying, and I get that FL LEO didn’t have the info. What gets me is the FBI fumble, but they are running around trying to get Trump impeached. With all I heard and read, I am glad I have guns because no one else is going to protect me and mine. God bless America.

Edit: That 39 call thing should have been a red flag for FL LEO, and the school, but as I said, it is excuses after the crash/fact. More, and more each day, the libprogs undies are showing. Not a good thing.

As a mom and grandmom, I feel sorry for Cruz’s legacy for all time. I would think if he had been in his right mind, he wouldn’t have committed such an atrocious crime. He was adopted which means his birth mom rejected him, or died, and then his adopted dad died of a heart attack 10 years ago, and then his adoptive mom died of the flu in Nov. And then the people that took him in saw no signs of a problem; which I have seen mixed reviews on that. If this is not a story of bad things waiting to happen, then I will say I don’t know what I am talking about. Prayers to all that died. So sad.
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Except that in this case an officer was on scene early in the incident but remained outside while the killing continued.
There's that.

But even when the police respond quickly, there will still be casualties/fatalities before they can get there. The Vegas shooter is a perfect example. The element of surprise is always on the side of the gunman.

I'm about investigating the red flags. Not the stupid crap like math symbols, which I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at, but the clearly disturbed person who has been reported numerous times and yet the police did nothing.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
I'm about investigating the red flags. Not the stupid crap like math symbols, which I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at, but the clearly disturbed person who has been reported numerous times and yet the police did nothing.
The guy was surrounded by do-gooders who didn't see what they had at their hands. The family that took him in after his mom died told him to get a gun cabinet and give them the keys. Later there was a police call at their house after Cruz beat up their kid. On what planet would you allow a disturbed teenager in your home to possess firearms ?
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
The guy was surrounded by do-gooders who didn't see what they had at their hands. The family that took him in after his mom died told him to get a gun cabinet and give them the keys. Later there was a police call at their house after Cruz beat up their kid. On what planet would you allow a disturbed teenager in your home to possess firearms ?
It doesn’t make sense, does it? I saw them interviewed, and they said nothing bad happened while he was living with them. Well, that was a lie. Back in the day, my neighbors were fosters. There was a boy that they would ask us to watch when they couldn’t and we said ok, and we were cleared to do so. After a few times of sitting, we said we can’t do it, anymore. That child was a monster, and his life has not gone well, but he has not killed anyone, that I know of, and I hope he has fared well. God bless the children.
 
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b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Except that in this case an officer was on scene early in the incident but remained outside while the killing continued. As other incidents (like the Ft Hood shooting) have demonstrated, an early response by the the police can end the killing and reduce the number of victims. Cruz wasn't planning on killing himself. He was planning on slipping out of the school along with the victims.

The Vegas shooter was pretty sophisticated and there was indeed little anyone, including the police, would have been able to stop him. The only way how he could have further evaded detection would have been by just cutting a hole in one of the windows (rather than breaking it out) and by using suppressed weapons.
Right on. This SRO was there on the spot. Although shooting had already started, and went on for nearly three minutes, the cop had ample time to have entered the building and confronted the shooter immediately, but did not for whatever reason. He will have to live with that decision for the rest of his life. That will be a mess on his mind and soul.

But I do agree with Vraiblonde - I've always said that the police are almost always just historical evidence gatherers. Just the way it is. Unless they are Johnny on the spot, like this officer was and failed to act, they always arrive after the fact.
 

direxpgw

Member
I’m still on the fence about the resource officers actions. Should probably hear what he has to say before I jump the gun. 3 or 4 minutes is not a lot of time to assess the situation for a peacetime scenario. While everyone loves to Monday morning quarterback, I’m just not sure. Did he know there was one gunman? Was he trying to line up a clear shot? We don’t live in Iraq. It’s tough to assess whether you are engaging one or multiple shooters, determine how you will engage him/her/them, what weapon and level of training you are up against, where they are, etc etc, all in the course of a few minutes all of sudden when just awakened from your year long monotonous job of donut eating and being Mr Friendly to a bunch of high schoolers. I’m not necessarily excusing the guy. I’m just saying maybe you should put yourself in his shoes for a second and see exactly how quick you would react in the real world of trying to engage an unknown with a high powered rifle with your glock. Remember, you are thrust into a complete unknown with only a few minutes on the clicking clock. Rush in Capt America, before you know wtf your up against and what you’ll be facing. I guess I’ll reserve judgement until I learn a little bit more.
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
I’m still on the fence about the resource officers actions. Should probably hear what he has to say before I jump the gun. 3 or 4 minutes is not a lot of time to assess the situation for a peacetime scenario. While everyone loves to Monday morning quarterback, I’m just not sure. Did he know there was one gunman? Was he trying to line up a clear shot? We don’t live in Iraq. It’s tough to assess whether you are engaging one or multiple shooters, determine how you will engage him/her/them, what weapon and level of training you are up against, where they are, etc etc, all in the course of a few minutes all of sudden when just awakened from your year long monotonous job of donut eating and being Mr Friendly to a bunch of high schoolers. I’m not necessarily excusing the guy. I’m just saying maybe you should put yourself in his shoes for a second and see exactly how quick you would react in the real world of trying to engage an unknown with a high powered rifle with your glock. Remember, you are thrust into a complete unknown with only a few minutes on the clicking clock. Rush in Capt America, before you know wtf your up against and what you’ll be facing. I guess I’ll reserve judgement until I learn a little bit more.
:yay:
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
I’m still on the fence about the resource officers actions. Should probably hear what he has to say before I jump the gun. 3 or 4 minutes is not a lot of time to assess the situation for a peacetime scenario. While everyone loves to Monday morning quarterback, I’m just not sure. Did he know there was one gunman? Was he trying to line up a clear shot? We don’t live in Iraq. It’s tough to assess whether you are engaging one or multiple shooters, determine how you will engage him/her/them, what weapon and level of training you are up against, where they are, etc etc, all in the course of a few minutes all of sudden when just awakened from your year long monotonous job of donut eating and being Mr Friendly to a bunch of high schoolers. I’m not necessarily excusing the guy. I’m just saying maybe you should put yourself in his shoes for a second and see exactly how quick you would react in the real world of trying to engage an unknown with a high powered rifle with your glock. Remember, you are thrust into a complete unknown with only a few minutes on the clicking clock. Rush in Capt America, before you know wtf your up against and what you’ll be facing. I guess I’ll reserve judgement until I learn a little bit more.
Yeah, I can see it from his perspective. The options were to A. be a hero and get the whole dog and pony show with the bagpipes or B. play it safe, if necessary violate department SOP and wait for backup. He chose B and is now retired with his full pension.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schools-more-dangerous-thanks-to-obamas-racial-policies/article/2581002

Obama's policy to stop arresting students who are disruptive.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=Broward+school+policy+to+stop+arresting+students&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN

Broward Counties policy to stop arresting students who are disruptive.

I know few will read this, but we need discipline in the schools. letting disruptive students hold back the rest of the students in a class is a piss poor policy.
The law needs to be changed to stop young people from having a right to an education, and to make it a privilege.
Abuse the privilege and GTF out.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Abuse the privilege and GTF out.
Well, honestly, school children are in more danger of being assaulted by their career criminal classmates than having some shooter come in, but nobody wants to talk about that. Not spectacular enough. The schools typically like to protect their FFA at the expense of students who are there to get an education.
 
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