Show me the Science

[TPD]

If you show me the science that proves everyone wearing masks work in slowing the spread of the chinese flu thru reduced contagious droplets, I may be more likely to wear one. I can’t find any science on this. I asked Dr Brewster the same thing today and she could not give me any case studies, only to say she has mentioned them in her reports to county government and these citations can be found on the county health department website.

So I go to the website and it directs me to the CDC website. So far, what I have seen on the CDC website is mainly:

1. Anecdotal evidence such as the two hair salon employees who were infected but didn’t infect 137 customers
2. Evidence that masks prevent people from touching their face which prevents the spread, which people are touching faces more
3. Reports from years ago showing masks slowing SARS or the flu, NOT Covid
4. Reports from China - say no more

No science, no replicated trials.

The only replicated trials I have seen so far is the latest study from Duke University showing neck gators and bandanas are useless.

I will agree that N95 masks WITHOUT the valves are probably the most effective but where the hell can we get those?!

So please, can someone help me find the SCIENCE from a reputable country showing me that the masks that most people are wearing today (homemade cloth masks, bandanas, neck gators, t-shirts) are effective in reducing contaminated Chinese virus droplets.

Thx in advance!

 

[Rommey]

On a parallel thought process, what will the government use to say masks are no longer needed? They mandated them because it felt like the right thing to do, but now that they have used "feelings" to start using them, I guess they can just as easily feel they are no longer needed.

And something that will add to the question...in winter if you can see your breath through a mask, is it really effective against a virus?

 

[GURPS]

The decision was announced by Minister for Medical Care Tamara van Ark after a review by the country’s National Institute for Health (RIVM). The government will instead seek better adherence to social distancing rules after a surge in coronavirus cases in the country this week, Van Ark said at a press conference in The Hague.

“Because from a medical perspective there is no proven effectiveness of masks, the Cabinet has decided that there will be no national obligation for wearing non-medical masks” Van Ark said.

The decision bucks the trend as many European countries have made masks mandatory in stores or crowded outdoor areas.

RIVM chief Jaap van Dissel said that the organization was aware of studies that show masks help slow the spread of disease but it was not convinced they will help during the current coronavirus outbreak in the Netherlands.

He argued wearing masks incorrectly, together with worse adherence to social distancing rules, could increase the risk of transmitting the disease.

Dutch government will not advise public to wear masks - minister

The Dutch government on Wednesday said it will not advise the public to wear masks to slow the spread of coronavirus, asserting that their effectiveness has not been proven.

www.reuters.com

 

[ontheriver]

I can see my breath on my glasses.... case closed for me.

 

[Sneakers]

And something that will add to the question...in winter if you can see your breath through a mask, is it really effective against a virus?

I can see my breath on my glasses.... case closed for me.

^ that. Never mind winter.....

 

[vraiblonde]

A "disease" that 99.5% Americans will survive, and 98.5% won't even get.

Joe Biden says if he's elected President he will cure COVID on Day 1 and I don't doubt that. The media will magically stop harping on it and stop with the pandemic porn, and voila! All cured.

It's stunning to me that so many Americans are buying into this nonsense.

 

[Scootboot]

CDC dropped the 14 day quarantine recommendation after travel. Could masks be next?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...rantine-recommendation/ar-BB18hP4i?li=BBorjTa

 

[GURPS]

Could masks be next?

NOPE ....... Authoritarians would lose there grip

 

[Chris0nllyn]

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

[BernieP]

On a parallel thought process, what will the government use to say masks are no longer needed? They mandated them because it felt like the right thing to do, but now that they have used "feelings" to start using them, I guess they can just as easily feel they are no longer needed.

And something that will add to the question...in winter if you can see your breath through a mask, is it really effective against a virus?

The new baseline for lifting that restriction is when the virus has been eradicated. Not one death.

 

[BernieP]

A "disease" that 99.5% Americans will survive, and 98.5% won't even get.

Joe Biden says if he's elected President he will cure COVID on Day 1 and I don't doubt that. The media will magically stop harping on it and stop with the pandemic porn, and voila! All cured.

It's stunning to me that so many Americans are buying into this nonsense.

The mantra now is NOT ONE DEATH, ONE DEATH is ONE to MANY.
Lending more credence to the position that this virus has been turned into as much a manufactured event as a health crisis.
The longer we stay shut down, the longer people suffer financially, the more misery, the more likely they vote against the party in power
That would be republicans and Trump.

CDC dropped the 14 day quarantine recommendation after travel. Could masks be next?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/ne...rantine-recommendation/ar-BB18hP4i?li=BBorjTa

Another case of hypocrisy to follow, where nobody will believe the CDC or Fauci.
Follow the science unless it doesn't follow our shutdown orders.

 

[BernieP]

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

I am aware of the science and do understand the concept of the two mask reduction of the spread.
But what I laugh about is people who are all for masks - for this reason, suddenly have found science it's okay for singers to not use a mask because there is no indication your water droplets travel further when singing than talking.

Except in church, where it is consider a greater risk.

 

[Sneakers]

The new baseline for lifting that restriction is when the virus has been eradicated. Not one death.

Which is simply not possible as proven by the myriad of viruses currently out there and the deaths caused by them.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I am aware of the science and do understand the concept of the two mask reduction of the spread.
But what I laugh about is people who are all for masks - for this reason, suddenly have found science it's okay for singers to not use a mask because there is no indication your water droplets travel further when singing than talking.

Except in church, where it is consider a greater risk.

I think there's certainly an argument that the rules are not applied equally. Many do not appear to pass the common sense test.

 

[BernieP]

I think there's certainly an argument that the rules are not applied equally. Many do not appear to pass the common sense test.

Politics
I mean, they have flat out said protesters are exempt because they are exercising their first amendment rights.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Politics
I mean, they have flat out said protesters are exempt because they are exercising their first amendment rights.

Absolutely.

But is it surprising? We politicize everything nowadays, so it's sort of expected. The Right blames the Left. The Left blames the Right. Both sides bicker and bicker and we all get screwed.

 

[TPD]

One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

I read the first study yesterday - please tell me who wears a damp wash cloth as a face mask and where has this ever been recommended?

Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

I also read the second study and immediately dismissed it because it came to this conclusion:

Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

Surgical face masks for symptomatic people. #1 - how many people are wearing surgical masks and #2 how many times have we been told that masks also help Asymptomatic people.

I glanced through your other studies and I don't really see anything scientific, it seems mostly to be number crunching from anecdotal evidence.

So I will ask again - So please, can someone help me find the SCIENCE from a reputable country showing me that the masks that most people are wearing today (homemade cloth masks, bandanas, neck gators, t-shirts) are effective in reducing contaminated Chinese virus droplets.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I read the first study yesterday - please tell me who wears a damp wash cloth as a face mask and where has this ever been recommended?



I also read the second study and immediately dismissed it because it came to this conclusion:


Surgical face masks for symptomatic people. #1 - how many people are wearing surgical masks and #2 how many times have we been told that masks also help Asymptomatic people.

I glanced through your other studies and I don't really see anything scientific, it seems mostly to be number crunching from anecdotal evidence.

So I will ask again - So please, can someone help me find the SCIENCE from a reputable country showing me that the masks that most people are wearing today (homemade cloth masks, bandanas, neck gators, t-shirts) are effective in reducing contaminated Chinese virus droplets.

So it's not that there's nothing scientific out there, there's just nothing you agree with? These aren't my studies and I have no dog in the fight. You asked a question, I responded with a link like everyone else does on a daily basis around here.

 

[TPD]

So it's not that there's nothing scientific out there, there's just nothing you agree with? These aren't my studies and I have no dog in the fight. You asked a question, I responded with a link like everyone else does on a daily basis around here.

I asked a specific question. Your articles did not answer that specific question. But thanks for your time in what you did cite.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

If you show me the science that proves everyone wearing masks work

Sorry. It's just not out there. However, there are plenty studies that say there is no way to know, nor scientific conclusion, that they work.

Cloth masks: Dangerous to your health?

Respiratory infection is much higher among healthcare workers wearing cloth masks compared to medical masks, research shows. Cloth masks should not be used by workers in any healthcare setting, authors of the new study say.

www.sciencedaily.com

.

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers

The aim of this study was to compare the efficacy of cloth masks to medical masks in hospital healthcare workers (HCWs). The null hypothesis is that there is no difference between medical masks and cloth masks.14 secondary-level/tertiary-level hospitals ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis

Conflicting recommendations exist related to which facial protection should be used by health care workers to prevent transmission of acute respiratory infections, including pandemic influenza. We performed a systematic review of both clinical and surrogate ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S12

News & Perspective

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Effectiveness of facemasks to reduce exposure hazards for airborne infections among general populations

Facemasks are widely used as a protective measure by general public to prevent inhalation of airborne pathogens including seasonal, swine and other forms of influenza and severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), etc. However, scientific data on effectiveness ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Some snippets....

"However, despite much research effort, the effectiveness of facemasks for preventing the contraction of influenza is still under debate and the results presented are not viewed as conclusive."

"The Canadian researchers searched the medical literature for clinical and lab studies published from 1990 through 2014 that compared N95s and surgical masks. They found 23 lab studies but only 6 clinical studies that met their criteria, including 3 RCTs, 1 cohort study, and 2 case-control studies."

"The widespread use of cloth masks by healthcare workers may actually put them at increased risk of respiratory illness and viral infections and their global use should be discouraged, according to a UNSW study."

"The comparative effectiveness of respirators and masks has long been debated. N95 respirators are designed to fit closely to the face and filter out at least 95% of airborne particles, whereas surgical masks fit more loosely and were originally designed to prevent the wearer from infecting others."