Some Facts on Mary

C

Chuckt

Guest
Some Facts on Mary
(Remix 9-24-2009)
By Chuckt (C) 2009

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name [was] Hagar.

H8198 shiphchah maid, maid-servant, slavegirl

Luke 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

G1399 doulē a female slave, bondmaid, handmaid

It is interesting how a woman who calls herself a slave is supposedly going to get favors done or be a mediator when she is listed last in the book of Acts and then nothing else is said about her in the Bible to have the kind of role she has in Catholicism but that is not the Mary of the Bible.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.

It says "blessed art thou AMONG women" and not "ABOVE" women.

Mary was just one of many praying to God:

Acts1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Mary was in the upper room praying and they prayed to the Lord in verse 24. They were praying to the Lord. We don't pray to Mary.

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
If there were two mediators then it would say "two" but it says "one" so we only pray to God because Mary is not a mediator.

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference [also] between a wife (gune) and a virgin (parthenos) . The unmarried woman (agamos) careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married (gameo) careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.

Mary had other children:

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Matthew 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?

Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Jesus called Mary "Woman".

Matthew 12:46 ¶ While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Jesus said "Who is my mother?" The answer is in the next two verses.

Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Luke 1:46 ¶ And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

If you have sin then you need a "saviour" and Mary called “God” her saviour.

Was Peter Married?

Matthew 8:14 ¶ And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother (penthera) laid, and sick of a fever.

1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

Who is Cephas?

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Some Facts on Mary
(Remix 9-24-2009)
By Chuckt (C) 2009

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name [was] Hagar.

H8198 shiphchah maid, maid-servant, slavegirl

Luke 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

G1399 doulē a female slave, bondmaid, handmaid

It is interesting how a woman who calls herself a slave is supposedly going to get favors done or be a mediator when she is listed last in the book of Acts and then nothing else is said about her in the Bible to have the kind of role she has in Catholicism but that is not the Mary of the Bible.

Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.

It says "blessed art thou AMONG women" and not "ABOVE" women.

Mary was just one of many praying to God:

Acts1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Mary was in the upper room praying and they prayed to the Lord in verse 24. They were praying to the Lord. We don't pray to Mary.

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
If there were two mediators then it would say "two" but it says "one" so we only pray to God because Mary is not a mediator.

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference [also] between a wife (gune) and a virgin (parthenos) . The unmarried woman (agamos) careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married (gameo) careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.

Mary had other children:

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Matthew 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?

Psalm 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Jesus called Mary "Woman".

Matthew 12:46 ¶ While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Matthew 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Jesus said "Who is my mother?" The answer is in the next two verses.

Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Luke 1:46 ¶ And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

If you have sin then you need a "saviour" and Mary called “God” her saviour.

Was Peter Married?

Matthew 8:14 ¶ And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother (penthera) laid, and sick of a fever.

1 Corinthians 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

Who is Cephas?

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

You are about to set off the SOMD catholics on this board - the most radical anywhere. Onel is probably beyond itself. You only had about 17 posts, and onel was done with you already. Must be a record.:faint:

:yahoo:
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
I took this picture two weeks ago in the Hagia Sofia in Turkey. This church was built in 500AD, notice the Madonna and Child on the ceiling. Now, it's your turn--you post something 1500 years old with any reference to any of the solas, osas, etc. and we'll call it even. Good luck. image-3235425025.jpg
 
Last edited:
C

Chuckt

Guest
The rules are against posting more than 100 words of copyrighted material even though I believe the law may allow more if I give credit.

I have statements from the Church fathers favoring sola scriptura. They can be found in The Ante-Nicene Fathers.

Irenaeus, (130-202), “We have known the method of our salvation by no other means than those by whom the gospel came to us; which gospel they truly preached; but afterward, by the will of God, they delivered to us in the Scriptures, to be for the future the foundation and pillar of our faith,” (Adv. H. 3:1)

It is interesting that Irenaeus attributes scripture to the foundation and pillar of our faith (1 Timothy 3:15) which means the breathed out words of God are the church or the pillar and foundation of the apostles and prophets and not the modern day church institution.

I attribute the quote to "Ancient Church Fathers (What the Disciples of the Apostles Taught" by Ken Johnson, Th.D.

I have a list from the other church fathers in this list below which supports sola scriptura but the rules here state not to post over 100 words from copyrighted sources:

Irenaeus, (130-202), Clement of Alexandria (150?-213?), Origen (185? - 252), St. Cyprian of Carthage (200? - 258), Athanasius (300? - 375), Ambrose (340? - 396), Jerome (342? - 420), Athanasius (300? - 375), Basil (330 - 379), Ambrose (340? - 396), Cyril of Jerusalem (315? - 386), Gregory of Nyssa (330 - 394).

I also have "The Creeds of Christiandom" by Phillip Schaff and the first creeds of the Church were scripture.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Oh, good Lord. :yawn:

Chuckt, you do realize that for every scripture verse that you interpret another interpretation could be given? So how do you know that you are right and not someone else?

I find it a curiosity that someone who is [presumably] sola scriptura would refer to any Church Father to justify his sola scriptura stance, but of course you would have to because sola scriptura is not found in scripture. The irony is amusing. In addition, you do realize that the canon of scripture you now adhere to was not in existence during the Ante-Nicene Fathers time? So, what scripture do you suppose Ireneus and the Ante-Nicene Fathers were referring to, and what does that mean for you? For every piece meal quote from a Church Father supposedly supporting sola scriptura, I can counter with numerous quotes supporting oral tradition. Interesting how that works, isn't it? Btw, have you actually read the Church Fathers or are you just quoting quotes from a modern-day book? If you have not read the Church Fathers for yourself, then I *highly* suggest you do so.

I do have another question for you if you don't mind. Can you name a Christian body or community that adhered to sola scriputura that was in existence and stayed in existence between the years 0 and 1500?

Btw, b23, I don't know what you mean by the word, but I would hardly call the Catholics on this forum "radical".
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
The rules are against posting more than 100 words of copyrighted material even though I believe the law may allow more if I give credit. I have statements from the Church fathers favoring sola scriptura. They can be found in The Ante-Nicene Fathers. It is interesting that Irenaeus attributes scripture to the foundation and pillar of our faith (1 Timothy 3:15) which means the breathed out words of God are the church or the pillar and foundation of the apostles and prophets and not the modern day church institution. I attribute the quote to "Ancient Church Fathers (What the Disciples of the Apostles Taught" by Ken Johnson, Th.D. I have a list from the other church fathers in this list below which supports sola scriptura but the rules here state not to post over 100 words from copyrighted sources: Irenaeus, (130-202), Clement of Alexandria (150?-213?), Origen (185? - 252), St. Cyprian of Carthage (200? - 258), Athanasius (300? - 375), Ambrose (340? - 396), Jerome (342? - 420), Athanasius (300? - 375), Basil (330 - 379), Ambrose (340? - 396), Cyril of Jerusalem (315? - 386), Gregory of Nyssa (330 - 394). I also have "The Creeds of Christiandom" by Phillip Schaff and the first creeds of the Church were scripture.
I'm headed out for some Memorial Day festivities at cemeteries and the obligatory cookout and won't be back until later but will respond then with early Church Father quotes as well--kindergarten apologetics--some of the ones you posted are a reach at best. I'll leave you with this to think about/ research. The esteemed Protestant B23 has espoused many times that while Protestant sects disagree on some issues of faith, they all agree on the fundamentals, i.e., salvation etc. About five years ago while researching something I googled "debunking sola scripture." The first 6 or 7 pages were Protestant pages slamming the concept as unBiblical. Thought that was interesting. So much for Protestant unity. I've asked this question before several times and not one person has attempted to answer. If the reformation corrected everything, why aren't all Protestants Lutheran? Peace and a Happy Memorial Day to all!
 
Last edited:

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Chuckt,

What gutter did you pull yourself out of before you found Jesus and start condemning the Catholic Church
Drugs, booze, whoring around, prison

We have heard it all before on these forums. All of your "I found Jesus and your going to hell because, blah, blah, blah"

Go back under the rock you came out of
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Chuckt,

What gutter did you pull yourself out of before you found Jesus and start condemning the Catholic Church
Drugs, booze, whoring around, prison

We have heard it all before on these forums. All of your "I found Jesus and your going to hell because, blah, blah, blah"

Go back under the rock you came out of

Maybe instead of telling Chuckt to go back into the darkness.... we should lead him to the light. Just saying....

:coffee:
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Maybe instead of telling Chuckt to go back into the darkness.... we should lead him to the light. Just saying....

:coffee:
This happens about once or twice a year. I am not going to let these "Born Agains", to start trashing my Faith. I'm happy that they found the Light. I am sure their life was hell. Their first task should not go on Forums and start trashing Catholicism. The should just go back to the darkness and help others out. Leave us Catholics alone. We are very comfortable in our Faith.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
This happens about once or twice a year. I am not going to let these "Born Agains", to start trashing my Faith. I'm happy that they found the Light. I am sure their life was hell. Their first task should not go on Forums and start trashing Catholicism. The should just go back to the darkness and help others out. Leave us Catholics alone. We are very comfortable in our Faith.

There are forums for that like Catholicreformation.yuku.com and xcatholic.yuku.com which has plenty of information so please don't start an argument for the sake of an argument. Please post the issues that you really want an answer for.

I'm into evangelism, apologetics, etc. I write my own Bible studies and Biblical articles. I started a book but haven't finished it.
I started out in counter-cult evangelism.

I believe in countering false teachers or teaching so if someone gave me a link and if I'm not studying for something, don't be surprised if I write a counter article for any link, video or article posted when I have time.
Some false teachings I have encountered required 300 hours of study or more and since I have a library and I can find books, I found the information and win my debates.
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
There are forums for that like Catholicreformation.yuku.com and xcatholic.yuku.com which has plenty of information so please don't start an argument for the sake of an argument. Please post the issues that you really want an answer for. I'm into evangelism, apologetics, etc. I write my own Bible studies and Biblical articles. I started a book but haven't finished it. I started out in counter-cult evangelism. I believe in countering false teachers or teaching so if someone gave me a link and if I'm not studying for something, don't be surprised if I write a counter article for any link, video or article posted when I have time. Some false teachings I have encountered required 300 hours of study or more and since I have a library and I can find books, I found the information and win my debates.

Most of the Catholics on this forum are not asking you questions nor your advice. In fact, in a sense, they're your worst nightmare--well versed in scripture, well catechized in the faith, and most importantly, have taken the time to learn the history of Christianity and that it did not begin in 1517.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
There are forums for that like Catholicreformation.yuku.com and xcatholic.yuku.com which has plenty of information so please don't start an argument for the sake of an argument. Please post the issues that you really want an answer for.

I'm into evangelism, apologetics, etc. I write my own Bible studies and Biblical articles. I started a book but haven't finished it.
I started out in counter-cult evangelism.

I believe in countering false teachers or teaching so if someone gave me a link and if I'm not studying for something, don't be surprised if I write a counter article for any link, video or article posted when I have time.
Some false teachings I have encountered required 300 hours of study or more and since I have a library and I can find books, I found the information and win my debates.

Quite full of yourself also.....
Why would I want answers from a Fundamentalist nut, who comes on a Forum just to attack Catholics.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Most of the Catholics on this forum are not asking you questions nor your advice. In fact, in a sense, they're your worst nightmare--well versed in scripture, well catechized in the faith, and most importantly, have taken the time to learn the history of Christianity and that it did not begin in 1517.

Nightmare? No.

You might also ask yourself about the martyrs. The faithful ones died and the unfaithful ones denied the faith survived. Those seeking profit and who weren't scared of persecution were left...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top