Speaking of Tax Fairness...

[Bruzilla]

It's tax time yet again, and I've been doing mine. It looks like I am once again going to be called upon to shoulder my burden of federal government expenses as a middle-class taxpayer, and instead of a nice refund I'll be sending additional money to Uncle Sam, only about $200, but that's not as nice as a refund.

Speaking of refunds, my wife and I are friends with a couple who have two kids and a third on the way. The wife stuffs envelopes at home (yes... people actually get paid to do that), but made only about $2000 doing it last year and paid $0 in taxes. Her husband works here and there, and all-told made about $12,000 last year, and paid about $700 in federal taxes (most of the time he was getting paid under the table). I've never qualified for earned income credits and other low-income bennies, and never really thought about them until I heard how big a tax return check these folks were getting from the same outfit that's taking my hard-earned money.

I had always thought that the earned income credit would give a couple hundred dollars tops. How much are these guys getting? $4,300 and some change! Now, will that money help out their family? Yes, but not nearly as much as if one of them would get up off their a$$es and really go to work. The husband only worked about half of the year, and the rest fo the time he hangs out with pals of a similar ilk. His wife sits around and reads the newspaper or watches TV. Meanwhile, I go out and work 50+hours a week so that I can help subsidize their laziness.

And they wonder why guys like me want a flat tax.

 

[Pete]

EIC is basicaly like "Lump sum welfare". Work a little, file a return and hit the mother load all at once instead of all those pesky forms and waiting in line for a monthly check.

 

[Kizzy]

I think everyone by now knows my feelings on the EIC. I think it is one of the biggest scams and clearly one of my biggest pet peeves. You should never ever in a million zillion years get more out of the piggy bank than you put in.

 

[blacklabman]

There should not be a child credit either. You already get a $3,050 exemption for each of them.

 

[rraley]

Ronald Reagan loved and signed the Earned Income Tax Credit - so blame him.

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
It's tax time yet again, and I've been doing mine. It looks like I am once again going to be called upon to shoulder my burden of federal government expenses as a middle-class taxpayer, and instead of a nice refund I'll be sending additional money to Uncle Sam, only about $200, but that's not as nice as a refund.

Speaking of refunds, my wife and I are friends with a couple who have two kids and a third on the way. The wife stuffs envelopes at home (yes... people actually get paid to do that), but made only about $2000 doing it last year and paid $0 in taxes. Her husband works here and there, and all-told made about $12,000 last year, and paid about $700 in federal taxes (most of the time he was getting paid under the table). I've never qualified for earned income credits and other low-income bennies, and never really thought about them until I heard how big a tax return check these folks were getting from the same outfit that's taking my hard-earned money.

I had always thought that the earned income credit would give a couple hundred dollars tops. How much are these guys getting? $4,300 and some change! Now, will that money help out their family? Yes, but not nearly as much as if one of them would get up off their a$$es and really go to work. The husband only worked about half of the year, and the rest fo the time he hangs out with pals of a similar ilk. His wife sits around and reads the newspaper or watches TV. Meanwhile, I go out and work 50+hours a week so that I can help subsidize their laziness.

And they wonder why guys like me want a flat tax.

I say flat tax... There is no reason for someone to make that little in the U.S. There are so many opportunities here, yet we pay people for not producing...

 

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by blacklabman
There should not be a child credit either. You already get a $3,050 exemption for each of them.

I can understand that, but only if they allow me to deduct every red cent paid to daycare. I don't want a credit for it, I want the entire amount subtracted from my income, and it shouldn't be based on income either. The entire amount subtracted nomatter what your income level is.

I consider it an expense for me to go out and work everyday.

 

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by rraley
Ronald Reagan loved and signed the Earned Income Tax Credit - so blame him.

I thought Gerald Ford introduced EIC in the mid 70's. It was expanded under Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr., and again by Clinton. The huge expansion was done under Clinton, so thought the average refund went from $400 to nearly $4k under Clinton.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by blacklabman
There should not be a child credit either. You already get a $3,050 exemption for each of them.

My wife and I seem to be paying more federal income taxes than we were three years ago, even though we didn't have kids then and we're living on one income now instead of two. I'd hate to think of what our taxes would be now if we didn't have kids.

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by IM4Change
I can understand that, but only if they allow me to deduct every red cent paid to daycare. I don't want a credit for it, I want the entire amount subtracted from my income, and it shouldn't be based on income either. The entire amount subtracted nomatter what your income level is.

I consider it an expense for me to go out and work everyday.

Hmm... So you want the IRS to deduct the amount it cost to feed your dogs and kids too.... C'mon... Grow-up. You had the kids, now take care of them. Or either quit your job and stay home and try raising your own kids..... Do one or the other, but don't cry about it...

 

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by ceo_pte
Hmm... So you want the IRS to deduct the amount it cost to feed your dogs and kids too.... C'mon... Grow-up. You had the kids, now take care of them. Or either quit your job and stay home and try raising your own kids..... Do one or the other, but don't cry about it...

Spoken like a true moron without kids.

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by IM4Change
I can understand that, but only if they allow me to deduct every red cent paid to daycare. I don't want a credit for it, I want the entire amount subtracted from my income, and it shouldn't be based on income either. The entire amount subtracted nomatter what your income level is.

I consider it an expense for me to go out and work everyday.

Spoken like a true, uuuuhhhhh.. Yeah, Loser! The government was not created to take care of people. Sorry if the truth hurts, but people need to take a little more responsibility with respect to their financial future and stop depending on the government.

 

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by ceo_pte
Spoken like a true, uuuuhhhhh.. Yeah, Loser! The government was not created to take care of people. Sorry if the truth hurts, but people need to take a little more responsibility with respect to their financial future and stop depending on the government.

What does the price of daycare paid out during the year have to do with preparing for your financial future?

I will guarantee one thing, I've done a hell of a lot more preparing for my financial future than most people, AND I've been socking away money for my children's education since the day they were born.

Now, if a working family brings in 80K a year and shells out 10K in daycare expenses, where is that income? Currently, I'm able to subtract $5K a year out of my income by taking advantage of a Dependant Care Account, but if you have 2 children in daycare, that quickly adds up. People work for many reasons, health care, but your arrogance doesn't see that. Quickly blame me for leaching off the government, when you have no clue.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by IM4Change
I thought Gerald Ford introduced EIC in the mid 70's. It was expanded under Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr., and again by Clinton. The huge expansion was done under Clinton, so thought the average refund went from $400 to nearly $4k under Clinton.

Yep, it started in 1975 and was expanded in 1986, 1990, and again in 1993.

 

[Kizzy]

Anyway CEO, you're ####ed cause I sided with the dog. That is all this is about.

Thank you Ken...

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by IM4Change
What does the price of daycare paid out during the year have to do with preparing for your financial future?

I will guarantee one thing, I've done a hell of a lot more preparing for my financial future than most people, AND I've been socking away money for my children's education since the day they were born.

Now, if a working family brings in 80K a year and shells out 10K in daycare expenses, where is that income? Currently, I'm able to subtract $5K a year out of my income by taking advantage of a Dependant Care Account, but if you have 2 children in daycare, that quickly adds up. People work for many reasons, health care, but your arrogance doesn't see that. Quickly blame me for leaching off the government, when you have no clue.

If you bring in 100k then you got 20k to spare... 20k for the daycare and then it's not a big deal. Or if you husband brings in 80k, you don't have to work, can raise the kids, your kids turn out better b/c you have instilled your morals into them (not some $7/hr babysitter), and you don't have to shell out the 20k for daycare.... I'm just saying that there are alternatives to putting kids in daycare. That's why I do not have kids yet, b/c I refuse to put them in daycare...

 

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by ceo_pte
If you bring in 100k then you got 20k to spare... 20k for the daycare and then it's not a big deal. Or if you husband brings in 80k, you don't have to work, can raise the kids, your kids turn out better b/c you have instilled your morals into them (not some $7/hr babysitter), and you don't have to shell out the 20k for daycare.... I'm just saying that there are alternatives to putting kids in daycare. That's why I do not have kids yet, b/c I refuse to put them in daycare...

Well alternatives to daycare and getting daycare subtracted from your income are two difference animals. Daycare is really only a minor set back, you don't pay it out forever, just until they are old enough to either go to school full time or until they are old enough to stay home alone for a half an hour or hour after school. Personally, I would not give up my retirement, sense of security in my job or benefits to do it. Not that I don't think that those who do it are not fantastic, just personally, it isn't for me. I think that even though I work full-time, I can still teach my children morals and values and that maybe, they will not, you know, partner swap, when they get older or be so bias that they think women should be home raising kids and not view it as a joint responsibility.

 

[Bruzilla]

I'm with ceo_pte on this one. Why should we have to pay for your daycare expenses? I have three kids and my wife elected to stay home and raise them. We have been living in Maryland as a single-income family, making just above the federal poverty level, and it's played havoc with our family finances. But, that was a decision that we made and we've accepted the consequences. We have had tons of money issues, but we also have three very well adjusted kids who have had no real problems with school, the cops, etc.

The decision to have kids is yours, the decision to work and place them in daycare is yours, the cost should be yours.

 

[Kizzy]

The way I see it, if you use your vehicle in the relm of your business, your allowed to deduct those cost from your income. If you use your cell phone in your job, your allowed to deduct those fees as well. So, if we allow expenses to be deducted on the theory that these expenses were incurred in order to maintain income or achieve income, how can daycare be looked as anything different? In order for the income level to be where it was, daycare had to be paid, an expense incurred in order to make the income.

 

[ylexot]

Originally posted by IM4Change
The way I see it, if you use your vehicle in the relm of your business, your allowed to deduct those cost from your income. If you use your cell phone in your job, your allowed to deduct those fees as well. So, if we allow expenses to be deducted on the theory that these expenses were incurred in order to maintain income or achieve income, how can daycare be looked as anything different? In order for the income level to be where it was, daycare had to be paid, an expense incurred in order to make the income.

The difference is that the vehicle or cell phone are job requirements for you OR ANYONE ELSE doing the same job.

Children are a choice and a resposibility. The government does (and should IMO) give tax credits for children. Basically what you want is even more tax credits. Why can't you make do with what you have? Why didn't you think about that BEFORE having children? Why should others be penalized for YOUR poor choices and lack of planning?